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Are Fakes Being Unwittingly Sold As Genuine Coins

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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2013  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Every single coin listed on The Black Cabinet (as well as roughly twice as many in the uncatalogued stacks) passed at least once as genuine before they ended up in the collection.

Fakes being sold as genuine are epidemic.

The diamagnetic ("opposite") pull exerted upon silver only happens when the magnetic field is in motion, which is why if you have a very strong neodymium magnet, you can "pick up" a silver coin with it. However, once the coin's velocity matches the magnet's velocity, the pull equalizes and it won't "stick." To get it to "stay" there, you'd have to pull the magnet away from the face of the coin at a constant acceleration (which is quite high).

However, this is useful for telling apart non-magnetic fakes as you can take a smaller neodymium magnet and slide it down the surface of the coin through a flip. If it's a slow slide, it's silver (or another diamagnetic material). If it slides off quickly (like with brass) you know it's the wrong metal. :-)
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tokenmast's Avatar
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648 Posts
 Posted 06/22/2013  7:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tokenmast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
take a smaller neodymium magnet and slide it down the surface of the coin through a flip.

Great point steve

The other guides you have on the Black Cabinet site are excellent also
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Metzger22's Avatar
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2013  12:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Metzger22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread has me checking and rechecking every coin in my collection. I just bought a BU 1941 Merc and I bet I've looked at that thing under the loupe with suspicion about 100 times lol.
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silvermaniac's Avatar
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm rather worried too since I read the post about the fake Mercuries. Is there any tip you can give us to spot the fake ones as easily as you; what do you usually look for?
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tokenmast's Avatar
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648 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2013  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tokenmast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To catch off metal fakes. While some can be found with refrigerator magnet only about 1/2 of the ones we handle can be found with those.(or 15lb.retriever )
Not all fakes will fail. Just ones with a Ferromagnetic, or Para-magnetic metal alloy at a high % in them will stick.

You can buy an array from us or build your own array with 9 or 16 n52 (5mm or 10mm )cubes in it.
Arranged in a checkerboard pattern and backed (epoxied)to a mild steel plate. I like to use a Chinese coin (for the irony )
2 tests of the magnets power.
A completed array will pick up a silver War Nickel ( 9% manganese) or US paper money (magnetic ink)
If your magnet can not do this it is not powerful enough to catch some magnetic fakes. Not all off metal fakes are magnetic however, and a different class of instrument is required like XRF, specific gravity, or TFDwall.
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atchisonbj's Avatar
United States
293 Posts
 Posted 06/28/2013  7:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atchisonbj to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Any key date coin that you see on ebay like a 1909-S-VDB 1c or a 1916-D 10c or an 1893-S $1 you need be naturally suspicious when the coin is raw (i.e. NOT certified by either PCGS, NGC, or ANACS) and when you don't know the seller because Red China is knowingly allow their people to fake these. Some of these fakes are so good they fool numismatic experts. Once you've done enough business with the seller and its obvious that he/she has a at least a strong regional presence at the show business (i.e. a bigger fish dealer from Minnesota would work all the shows in that state, western Wisconsin if not the whole state parts of Iowa and Fargo and Sioux Falls in the neigboring Dakotas) then you know you are working with a dealer that should be able to catch most of the bad fakes before they even buy them themselves.
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BadThad's Avatar
United States
19963 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2013  02:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
you need be naturally suspicious when the coin is raw (i.e. NOT certified by either PCGS, NGC, or ANACS)


You need to be suspicious about ALL coins. I've seen fakes in TPG slabs and, of course, there are also fake slabs. If there's a way to steal money, some piece of garbage will do it.

Fakes are just a part of collecting and they will always be. In fact, IMO, it's getting worse every year. The dealers I know will tell you hundreds of stories each about fakes they've seen.
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Edited by BadThad
06/29/2013 02:26 am
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cinemabon's Avatar
United States
154 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2013  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cinemabon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Makes me wonder how many coins in my collection aren't real. The legacy I intend for my son might just be worth half of my imagined value!

And what's with silver dropping to $18! Is this a good time to buy?
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Conder101's Avatar
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17884 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2013  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is if you think it will go back up, it isn't if you think it will keep dropping. What it is actually going to do is anybody's guess, and many of them will be wrong.
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silvermaniac's Avatar
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2013  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The prices of silver coins near bullion value have been dropping along silver, but silver coins with higher premiums are a different story; I would say they even kept going up this last year.

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SteveCaruso's Avatar
United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2013  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You need to be suspicious about ALL coins. I've seen fakes in TPG slabs and, of course, there are also fake slabs.


Just to back BadThad's comments up, say "hello" to Morgan:

Are-Fakes-Being-Unwittingly-Sold-As-Genuine-Coins

"Hello, Morgan." :-)
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  01:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't forget the fakes that are so good that the rest of the numismatic world traded, bought and sold them for years before being proven to be fakes.

The 1907 St. Gaudens Double Eagle - the Omega copies (now worth quite a bit themselves)

The Micro "o" Vams of 1896, 1900 and 1902
http://www.pcgs.com/News/Pcgs-Decla...Counterfeits

These were not proven to be fakes until 2005, though I believe as far back as the 1960's they existed.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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Conder101's Avatar
United States
17884 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2013  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The micro O's are probably contemporary counterfeits from the early 20th century. There is at least one article from back around the turn of the 20th century that warned of counterfeit New Orleans dollars and the diagnostic them mentioned was that they had a very small lowercase O mintmark. (At that time silver had dropped so low that even using full metal weight had less than 50 cents worth of metal in them.)
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