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New Late Romans - Tf

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Pillar of the Community

United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  7:41 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
The coin show this weekend produced several new coins including these two bearing the letters TF in the reverse field. The Licinius (RIC 120 Lyon page 173) is normal with the letters split left and right. The Constantine (RIC 34 Trier page 124) struck me as quite unusual in that the TF is all on the left side (only one like this I have owned) but RIC lists it as common so I guess I should not have paid $10 more for it. Failmezger suggested that TF stood for Temporum Felicitas. Does anyone have a view on this or anything else to say on the coins?

New-Late-Romans---Tf

New-Late-Romans---Tf
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a Constantine Sol 'T* F' from Arles (316AD) and a '*T *F' issue from London (310AD) along with multiple standard 'T F' issues from Arles, London, Lyon and Trier. 'F T' also springs up from time to time.

I've read the Temporum Felicitas / Saeculi Felicitas theory and it seems plausible. These marks are first and foremost series indicators but I think they have been selected deliberately to represent well known or politically desirable slogans. I have also read a theory claiming these 'slogans' were used in certain areas to reassure the public that Constantine's on/off wars with Licinius were the correct thing for him to do.

The only Constantine Sol mint that shows any kind of sensible progression or system in its field marks is Trier (typical German organisation or coincidence?).

Here is a visual representation of all of these issues for Constantine. Please remember that this is not something that I planned to publish and it is a work in progress on my part, ignore the colour coding, it means something to me but I don't really have time to explain it, it also contains some Trier field marks I have theorised should exist but have not been found:

http://postimage.org/image/eg1prj5op/
Edited by bobbyhelmet
11/08/2011 8:28 pm
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Both are excellent examples. But I have never seen, or least noticed, a coin with the double letters in the field like the Constantine coin. Yes, I've seen coins with two letters in a field, but never together like this. I would have paid extra for it as well. I wonder how common this is. I looked and found a few from Lyons as well, but not many more then that. Knowing you, you probably got both these coins at a great price. Which show did you attend? I would like some day to attend a show with Ancient coin dealers, but so far none around here. Good buy and great detail. I have a ton of Licinius I and II coins, but none with great detail like this example.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK - pic too small, I'll keep working on it till its OK.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coins, but I don't know much about these other than the basics.
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've given up on posting the pic - hopefully the above link will work, you will still need to click it to blow it up when you get there.
Edited by bobbyhelmet
11/08/2011 8:30 pm
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bobbyhelmet's Avatar
United Kingdom
2838 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In fact Doug here is a link to an earlier post with quite a few theories (from sensible to wild) in it:

https://goccf.com/t/96914
Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  10:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jw said: "Knowing you, you probably got both these coins at a great price. Which show did you attend? "

I'll take that as a compliment. A dealer whose name you would probably recognize once told me that I was the second cheapest guy he had met. I was hurt. I wanted to be #1. A great price is a matter of opinion. I feel I overpaid for the Constantine but I wanted the TF together. It was $30 but I bought other coins that same day that were nicer for less. It all averages out. I recently paid $350 for a worn denarius of Septimius Severus and strongly suspect no one reading this would go over $50 for it. Opinions vary as do our collections.

I attended the small show in Richmond VA last Friday. The week after next is the big show in Baltimore that caused me to write my pages on coin shows but I plan to skip it since the dealer I find most productive also did Richmond and I doubt he will have enough new stock to make it worth driving three hours one way to see who else comes. I go there when I can get a ride or the local club charters a bus. I hate to drive.

Baltimore is a show where you will see nice coins for fair prices and junk coins for twice as much. You also will see perfect coins for ten times as much as I pay for what I consider attractive mid grade coins but I do not collect in that bracket preferring ten $30 coins to one $300 example of the same type.

If you go to Baltimore, you should find a coin or two. I usually leave with 20-30 and not enough money left to buy lunch.
http://whitmancoincollecting.com/co...timore-expo/
There will be more in 2012. Perhaps I will go on April Fools Day:
http://www.whitmanexpo.com/(S(dpf1n...kieSupport=1
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  10:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From one cheap guy to another, that WAS a compliment. I'm retired military so I had to learn, especially in my early years, how to stretch a dollar as far as I could. On top of that my father and mother lived through the Great Depression and impressed on us kids how important it is to be frugal and not waste money. Don't get me wrong. If I see a coin I really want/need for my collection I will go to great lengths to get that coin. But why spend more then one has to?

I think you got some nice coins and I was sure the prices were right. And they were.
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VisigothKing's Avatar
United States
4778 Posts
 Posted 11/09/2011  10:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VisigothKing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Other than the internet, I get some of my Romans from a dealer at a local monthly coin show I go to. Since I am a repeat customer, he cuts me deals sometimes.
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Caesar381's Avatar
Serbia (Srbija)
146 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2011  02:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Caesar381 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Licinivs II is very nice... they are hard to find...
Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2011  08:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is Licinius I as Augustus. Licinius II struck only as Caesar.
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