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 Replies: 13 / Views: 2,137 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts |
This forum is entitled Ancient Greek and Roman Coins which is what I called my website back when that is what I collected. Recently I have expanded into coins from farther East and into the medieval period which I have never seen posted on CC. Is this type post appropriate here or do you all just collect Greek from Greece? My newest coin is Kushan of Kanishka c.130-158 AD. The legends are Greek but that was about all that was Greek about the Kushan civilization. My question, however might be applicable to Greek and Roman coins as well.  The top coin has been in my collection for several years. The bottom one was an upgrade received today. The new one cost six times the price of the old one but it is exceptionally nice as Kushan bronzes I have seen tend to be. The question is how much we spend to get 'quality' as opposed to just a representative coin. Actually the old coin is not bad compared to many and has half of the obverse legend and all five letters of the reverse. It was above average from my experience even though it is a bit ugly. Both are the same ruler, same type, same mint and same date (at least generally). The difference is just condition, centering, strike and eye appeal. The new one is far from perfect since it is worn to F-VF and has scratches from overzealous cleaning (they are easier to see in a larger photo). I would expect a nicer one that this would break into three digits since every little bit of quality gets very expensive when you are dealing with these normally well worn and poorly struck issues. Opinions: How important is 'quality' to you? Both coins are legible examples of their type. Is the new one worth 6X? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts |
There have been a few Kushan coins posted here, mostly for ID. I don't collect any.
I'm trying to learn more about Greek coins and I've stated collecting a few, but there doesn't seem to be many Greek collectors here.
The contrapposto stance she has on your coin is pretty cool.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts |
Quality means a lot to me. I'd rather pay more for a better condition coin.
6X I don't know.
How much of that was price increase over time as compared to the condition difference?
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Quality is becoming less and less important to me - I can however see why you would pay 6x for the second coin, I might have also done this, maybe. Its legend is full and clear unlike the first one and its nicely centred.
As long as I can 100% attribute a coin I consider its quality to be acceptable - If I cant I don't want the coin but I'm not hung up on always buying near mint examples, yes to have a few is nice but I look for other things in a coin. Honest wear is attractive to me, the coin has character and its been used for the purpose it was created for rather than being lost or buried early in its life. Its like modern day slabbed-from-the-mint coins, I just cant see the point. Museums can have all the mint Romans, that way I get to see them and don't have to own coins I dare not touch.
Some people seem obsessive with regards to quality, I find these are the people more interested mainly in just owning the coins. The actual coin is a small part for me, in truth I could still get 75% of the pleasure by just researching and not owning. The coin points me to interesting areas to learn about but more important is what learn in the process. Everyone's different but this is my humble opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2838 Posts |
Doucet, I may be wrong here (I usually am) but your coins mainly seem to be collected for their artistic properties, symbolism and subject matter etc. The vast majority of the coins you post I could happily stare at for an hour. Your an art connoisseur, quality coins best show these traits so I suspect that's why you look for those. I'm a history buff, my latest coin just tells me which library book to get out next  Edited by bobbyhelmet
11/10/2011 10:22 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
Nice coin. The closest I have to an ancient or medieval Greek coin is my Byzantine trachy of Manuel I.
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Quality is not very important to me, as long as I can attribute it and it fits into my collection. I would be just as happy to have your first coin.
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Moderator
Australia
16872 Posts |
Quote:
This forum is entitled Ancient Greek and Roman Coins which is what I called my website back when that is what I collected. Recently I have expanded into coins from farther East and into the medieval period which I have never seen posted on CC. Is this type post appropriate here or do you all just collect Greek from Greece? To be pedantic, it's not the "Ancient Greek and Roman Coins" subforum, it's the "Ancient, Greek, and Roman Coins" subforum. Note the commas. I've always interpreted that as meaning any "Ancient" coin is suitably placed here. I posted my Axumite coin here, for instance. Mediaeval is another question. We don't have a "Mediaeval" subforum, there simply hasn't been enough interest in mediaevals here on CCF to justify creating one. Personally I put mediaeval coins in among the other "World Coins", but if people post them here in Ancients instead, I generally don't bother moving them. As to your question on the value of quality, I'd have to agree with echizento. If given the choice between those two coins, I'd take the cheaper option. The difference between the two wouldn't warrant a 6x price increase, in my opinion. You can read the king's name nice and clear on both coins; that's all I'd need or ask for. Back in 2000 I saw a rather nice Tiberius as in a dealer's display, with the ask on it several hundred bucks. I didn't have a Tiberius coin, so I'd picked it out to buy. I then found a coin of exactly the same type, and I mean exactly, sitting in the dealer's "unidentified Roman bronzes - $9 each" bucket, all ugly and pitted. I promptly put the nice one back and bought the ugly one. It was identifiably Tiberius, that was all I needed for my OFERE collection. With the money I saved, I picked up half a dozen extra coins I wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
509 Posts |
Quality is important to me, but it's hard to quantify. I've made decisions I regret with common coins like Indian cents and Barber dimes, so am trying to be more thoughtful with my ancient purchases. In your example, if the cheap coin is $10-15, I'm not sure I'd justify $60-90 for the nicer example, but perhaps a multiple of 3-4. I think we'd mostly agree on which coin is more desirable, the only question is the additional premium. Another factor is just how available these coins are. For a lot of collectors there are limited sources of ancient coins at shops/dealers/shows, so the low quality examples may be the only ones they actually get to handle. Of course they're widely available on the internet, but that's not the same experience. I enjoy seeing all non-classical ancient coins, -wheatiefan |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1549 Posts |
Thanks to all who answered. Over the years I have known many collectors for whom quality was most important and relatively few who would put back a nicer coin in favor of an ugly one. This Community seems to be a good place to go to find those who prefer more rather than nicer. I used to consider myself that way and wrote my page on three collectors at a show pointing out that I was not a quality hound. I do not believe I have changed as much as the standards. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/do...acmshow.htmlToday there is a market for coins that did not sell easily twenty years ago. A lot of this is the increasing interest in uncleaned coins and even metal detecting which has brought to market many more 'field finds' that tend to have rough surfaces. When I wrote that page, it was harder to find dealers who sold rough coins except when they were also rare (you could always get an ugly Pescennius Niger but it was then harder to find an ugly or rough Probus except in an unidentified junk box). I wonder if I am seeing the start of a return to the collecting standards of 200 years ago when a collection was measured more by how many coins it included (especially those that no one else had) rather than how many MS66 slabs it contains? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4253 Posts |
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I wonder if I am seeing the start of a return to the collecting standards of 200 years ago when a collection was measured more by how many coins it included (especially those that no one else had) rather than how many MS66 slabs it contains? Speaking for myself, I prefer a quality coin. However, for harder to find and more expensive issues, quality is secondary. My goal is to collect at least one coin from each of the more accepted Emperors and Usurpers. They must be readable to some extent. I have seen coins for sale that have been attributed, but the legends may be obliterated, the reverse is only barely visible, and there is a bare outline of a bust on the obverse. These coins I hold at arms length and only buy if I must while holding my nose. I'm not a quality snob, but, like most people, I will purchase as much quality as I can afford. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts |
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I may be wrong here (I usually am) but your coins mainly seem to be collected for their artistic properties Bobbyhelmet I don't think your wrong here. In fact that's a pretty good observation. I couldn't have described myself any better. I take that as a compliment. Although, it's not to the exclusion of history that I collect. I truly enjoy the historical aspects of ancient coins. My knowledge of ancient history details is quite limited and I don't have the time to take on the monumental task of becoming fluent here, but little by little I'm getting these coins placed in their historical context. About buying top quality though I have to say, as I'm searching through pictures of coins for sale I'm always looking at the picture first. More often than not when I stop and think Wow I'd like to have that one I look over at the price and say I'll have to pass. That gives me a challenge to find a nice example for a price I can live with or get when no one is paying attention. I think all ancients have their beauty regardless and the different ways that people collect is very educational and inspiring. Keep on keepin on |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2895 Posts |
My primary goal in my ancients was the collection of Roman Provincials of a sole emperor. While I've not added to that collection for some time - rarety was more important than condition as I wanted to make sure my book was as complete as possible. That said, quality was important too to the extent that all the legends and devices needed to be clear. Beyond that "superior" quality was not essential and curtailed by limited resources. A goodly number of the coins I have are unique so quality does not really come into it.
For my modern coins quality definitely is important - but only broadly so. I like EF examples if I can afford them - but not really beyond that. I don't really understand the difference between the high MS numbers and I don't really need to. I don't feel the need to have a third party tell me that one coin is microscopicially better than another - when I couldn't tell them apart from just looking at them. That just doesn't float my boat at all. :) Just a nice EF+ example will do nicely.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4778 Posts |
Oops I missed the question  Well quality to me is an important aspect when I'm collecting ancients. I usually go for ones with near full legends, decent detail etc. for low prices. But like bobby, I'm completely satisfied with ones that are just 100% attributable. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the ones that are practically lumps; I like them too. Just rather spend my money on better looking coins and/or coins that catch my interest. Edited by VisigothKing
11/11/2011 11:28 am
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Replies: 13 / Views: 2,137 |
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Posted 11/10/2011 8:47 pm
