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To participate in the forum you must log in or register. | Author |
 Replies: 14 / Views: 2,229 |
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
Thanks to some of the more knowledgeable folks here on CCF, I'd like to think my coin photography is improving.....but I welcome feedback from the CCF community.
I consider myself an "advanced" digital photographer, and my works have been published nationwide. I've shot everything from supermodels to prototype cars, wildlife, landscapes, jewelry, and more. Still, even with all my experience and some very good equipment, photographing coins has presented one of my biggest challenges.
Equipment : Canon EOS 20D, ISO 100, Aperture Priority F-11. Tamron 90mm macro lens (one of the sharpest macro lenses ever made)
Lighting : One direct light source, placed almost directly over the coin at the 2 o'clock position.
Post-processing : Adobe Photoshop on my color calibrated iMac.
The "RAW" images were gently tweaked for some minor tonal corrections, then lightly sharpened before cropping. No extra layers, no major manipulations.
Since I had a nice MS-70 Silver Eagle at my disposal, I tried to capture both luster and detail in the same image - something that has eluded me in the past. That said, I would appreciate some feedback on the pics. Thanks in advance - now let 'er rip !
 
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Valued Member
United States
187 Posts |
well,nice pics....I'm kinda new to taking coin pics myself so I can't really offer any helpful critique,but I think your pics are great.I'm sure someone will be along shortly with some helpful advice.I can tell you what I do know...getting the lighting right is much more difficult than I ever would have thought.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Aw, that's just beautiful. Coin and images both. Now, the critique: First, I don't think you're quite perfectly perpendicular to the coin. The tops seem more sharply-focused than the bottoms. Work a bit on that - rmpsrpms uses a technique which is just silly in its' simplicity. Put a mirror where the coin will be, and then adjust the camera so the image of the lens itself is in the exact center of the frame. Bingo, instant parallelism. Second: Move to ISO200 or 400, so you can open the aperture to f/8 without losing exposure speed. A 20D will be plenty noise-free at those ISOs, and f/11 might be approaching the diffraction limit of the lens meaning the image is not as sharp as the lens can deliver. F/8 will be more in its' sweet spot. Third. The images as presented are really appealing from a visual standpoint - aesthetically excellent - but (and this is purely a personal opinion) a little overexposed and lacking in contrast. I took the liberty of hauling one image into the Gimp for levels and contrast adjustment, with the result below. I also backed some yellow out of it; I don't know if that's the natural color of the coin (I'm viewing on a calibrated IPS panel) or slightly-off White Balance; I assumed the latter and adjusted color appropriately.  These adjustments are not to be considered concrete suggestions, but only a reflection of my own personal tastes. I'd be pretty darn happy with the originals.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4038 Posts |
Nice coin, and nice photo, though there is room for improvement. Beyond what SuperDave already has said:
- Neither obverse nor reverse are aligned with horizon. Obverse needs to rotate a bit CW, reverse a tiny bit CCW.
- f/11 is too stopped-down. Diffraction is already rearing its ugly head at around f/8 with your lens. I'd recommend no smaller than f/8, and preferably f/5.6. Now, is f/11 you are quoting the "effective" or "infinity" aperture?
- Your lighting is a bit too diffuse for my taste. Looks like you are using a single fluorescent or otherwise diffuse source at around 1:00, right? Artistically this looks great on the sun but it is creating an unnatural and uneven shadowing effect. Your light is also a bit too low. Would be nice to see it a bit higher to keep highlights off the edges of the devices. I'd recommend:
a) Add a 2nd light at 10:30 and move the existing to 1:30
b) reduce the diffusion on both lights. This will bring out more luster and local contrast
c) Raise both lights to well above 45deg from horizontal
I think I see what you are trying for compositionally with this shot: shadow delineation of the surface design features. Correct? If you really want this look, but also an overall even lighting and composition, you may need to run 3 lights:
1) A minimal-diffuse source at 1:00 as you have shown, possibly even lower to horizontal to amplify the shadow effects
2) A medium-diffuse source at 2:00, high above coin
3) as #2 but at 10:00
Adjust the relative placement or intensity of the surface light 1 versus the fill-in lights 2 and 3 to get the overall lighting as needed.
You could also try using two of my RSD Directors placed low to the coin for a similar effect.
...Ray
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Valued Member
 United States
158 Posts |
Quote:
Now, the critique: First, I don't think you're quite perfectly perpendicular to the coin. The tops seem more sharply-focused than the bottoms. Work a bit on that - rmpsrpms uses a technique which is just silly in its' simplicity. Put a mirror where the coin will be, and then adjust the camera so the image of the lens itself is in the exact center of the frame. Bingo, instant parallelism.
Second: Move to ISO200 or 400, so you can open the aperture to f/8 without losing exposure speed. A 20D will be plenty noise-free at those ISOs, and f/11 might be approaching the diffraction limit of the lens meaning the image is not as sharp as the lens can deliver. F/8 will be more in its' sweet spot.
Third. The images as presented are really appealing from a visual standpoint - aesthetically excellent - but (and this is purely a personal opinion) a little overexposed and lacking in contrast. I took the liberty of hauling one image into the Gimp for levels and contrast adjustment, with the result below. I also backed some yellow out of it; I don't know if that's the natural color of the coin (I'm viewing on a calibrated IPS panel) or slightly-off White Balance; I assumed the latter and adjusted color appropriately.
Exactly the advice I was looking for - thanks for the critique !
I have a small mirror I can use to get parralel to the coin, so that's an easy fix. An excellent tip !
As for the "sweet spot" of the lens, I've used this particular one for many years with great results. F-11 to F-16 seem to give superior results, but I can certainly experiment with some ISO/F-stop combos to see if the images improve. You are correct in stating the 20D can handle longer exposures without creating a bunch of noise, as I have used it for exposures up to 60 seconds when photographing lightning strikes at night along the TX/OK state line (another story altogether). Let's just say I'm no stranger to long exposures.
Lastly, I did notice the yellowish tinge after processing, so I need to go back and tweak my RAW image adjustments some more. I was concentrating more on the lighting and detail than the color correction. Your corrections made a good photo much better, and you can't argue with results like that !
Someone once told me "You are wise to know what you do not know".... your thoughtful critique is most welcome. Thank you, sir !Edited by CitizenPatriot
11/16/2011 5:17 pm
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
Quote:
I think I see what you are trying for compositionally with this shot: shadow delineation of the surface design features. Correct? If you really want this look, but also an overall even lighting and composition, you may need to run 3 lights:
1) A minimal-diffuse source at 1:00 as you have shown, possibly even lower to horizontal to amplify the shadow effects
2) A medium-diffuse source at 2:00, high above coin
3) as #2 but at 10:00
Adjust the relative placement or intensity of the surface light 1 versus the fill-in lights 2 and 3 to get the overall lighting as needed.
Thanks for your advice as well, Ray. If I'm going to get this right, I guess I'll have to invest in some gooseneck LED lights in addition to tweaking my settings, as SuperDave suggested.
I never intended to make this a second career or anything, but it is more of a challenge than anything. If I ever get it "right", I might just have to go into business !  Edited by CitizenPatriot
11/16/2011 5:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I've followed many a thread you have posted..your skills are very apparent..yet coins are a whole new world..as you see...getting details, is not so hard, getting the color of what is in hand is very hard....I noticed in one of your last threads, in the reflections in your photo you are using a ? shelter or some kind of diffusion tent....lighting tent what have you..The Matte finish on the ASE coins is ok in this instance, however when you go to Morgans your finding this doesn't work YES? it does high light the detail but the color is off..not true silver as seen in hand....Its not your skills of photography, but of the nature of photoing Morgans..much harder than any other coin...Size, Detail, and true color, plague us all, and the lens to use for our use... general shots or full macro...extreme defintion and full color  |
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
Quote:I've followed many a thread you have posted..your skills are very apparent..yet coins are a whole new world..as you see...getting details, is not so hard, getting the color of what is in hand is very hard....I noticed in one of your last threads, in the reflections in your photo you are using a shelter or some kind of diffusion tent....lighting tent what have you. The Matte finish on the ASE coins is ok in this instance, however when you go to Morgans you're finding this doesn't work YES? it does highlight the detail but the color is off..not true silver as seen in hand....Its not your skills of photography, but of the nature of photoing Morgans..much harder than any other coin...Size, Detail, and true color, plague us all, and the lens to use for our use... general shots or full macro...extreme defintion and full color
I suspect you are correct on several points, sir. My little tabletop "studio" is a one-off prototype designed several years ago by a well-known commercial photographer in Colorado. Only a few of these were made, and I got one for doing small product photos such as jewelry, etc.
The "studio" is approx. 24" wide by 36" long by 24" high. The material is black on one side, white on the other, and the outfit can be turned inside out depending on the circumstances. It also has a frosted acrylic top piece that can be removed if diffusion is not needed. Everything folds flat and fits in a large carrying case.
I've used this for hundreds of shots. My wife makes custom gemstone jewelry and sells online, so it is very well suited for that application. For coins, I suspect I may have to turn it inside out and go to "the dark side" while adding some better direct lighting.
Yes, those Morgans do present some special challenges. I'll keep at it until I'm satisfied with the resulting images. Thanks for the kind words.Edited by CitizenPatriot
11/17/2011 11:17 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Reading between the lines, I for one, think you have been VERY happy with results of everything you have ever photoed before, using your current setup...there is a safety factor in our thinking, that in general when we use certain procedures it works for every thing else...While I am not a long time photographer I am an old hand seasoned veteran with known working procedures to replicate the out come..."Super Dave and Ray, have forgotten more than I will ever know"... I still have an eye from my own understandings, and experiences...Which I will gladly share as I'm also a work in progress with my new camera, when I( have finally figured out my old camera, and still get better pics with my old 2004 Canon power shot pro1...to my eyes... My small advise, Loose the tent..and start from SCRATCH...you have know wear to go but upwards... I remember one of your earlier posts of a Morgan was so detailed but the color was so far off. its not the equipment or your skills...lighting for Morgans is very critical as they are very shiny...to shiny... I am currently using these big old CLF bulbs, 6500K, ] just me at my end...they provide the daylight spectrum without the off color of blue with the tungsten bulbs or the yellow of other bulbs..I have not tried the Jansco lights others are using as I "speak". as it still gets down to basics. the CFL and jansco do not seem to have off colors added to the photo's which is one less thing to worry about... I have a few shots to share with you, the first 2 are under my CFL bulbs, no diffusion, on my old 2004 Canon power shot pro1...   these 2 are shot with no diffusion,,MY MILK BOTTLE..LOL,, now my milk bottle shots...   ... My main point here is to exlemplify the types of techiques and the results...the first 2 have total color and detail of the coin...the next two under diffusion..show nice details but loss of the coins true appearance... Personally I'm glad I didn't get rid of my old camera, as I finally figure out the lighting and settings which influence so much of the out come... now I have to apply these same principals and see the out come from my new camera...I still have not yet to see the pic one and two..the real silver in hand coin from my new camera, yet I have discovered, many greater advanteges from the new from the old...its just how do I capture those old great shots?...I start back to the begining, with out the tent.. check the lighting and direction , 10:00 o'clock and 2O'clock to begin with, and focal plane which dave and ray have noted...Lens is parallel to the coin...I would not be supprized if you see a significant improvement.... |
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Valued Member
United States
306 Posts |
Patriot- Would you mind posting a picture of that custom studio that you shot this in? I really like the white background against the coin's luster. Lots of neat info in this thread... I'm going to get into photographing some of my coins once I upgrade my camera.
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
Quote:
Patriot- Would you mind posting a picture of that custom studio that you shot this in? I really like the white background against the coin's luster. Lots of neat info in this thread... I'm going to get into photographing some of my coins once I upgrade my camera.
Well, here ya go. The "box" sits in our finished attic, next to a window for some ambient light. Lighting options vary - I can hang lights from the overhead bar for diffusion through the frosted top, I can use a strobe (seen resting atop the box) tethered to my DSLR, or direct lighting using the hillbilly method seen in this (crappy) photo taken with my point-n-shoot.
 As empty-nesters, the attic now serves as a kind of "craft room", where all kinds of magic happens. Just for giggles, here's some of the wife's jewelry sitting on my custom gun-smithing bench. You see, I also restore old rifles.  Of course, with such a wide selection of gemstones, weaponry, and coins floating around here at any given time, a good alarm system is a must-have. Meet "Ruger".  Edited by CitizenPatriot
11/21/2011 1:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Ruger is great So is your over all set up... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
642 Posts |
 Just reading All the photography in the thread is beyond my skill level, I wouldn't know what to critique. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
PM me as I can't PM you..Gene
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Valued Member
United States
158 Posts |
Gene - message sent. I've been off-line for a couple of days....holiday travel and all that. Drop me a note anytime.
John
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Replies: 14 / Views: 2,229 |
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Posted 11/16/2011 3:08 pm
