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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,337 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
It has been brought to my attention that there are at least two coins that depict using the American flag as a (possible) garment of clothing; Walking Liberty half and the ASE (modern version of classic depiction). As a military member, we have been educated on respect for the U.S. Flag, and according to The U.S. Flag Code, section 4-(d) (d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should not be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...---000-.htmlThis subject was brought up in my Government class. I realize that the coins in question are not actual representations of people (or is it?), and people like to depict art in live form. Would this be considered a violation of the aforementioned Article? I tried using the "should" versus "shall" argument, but the instructor sided with recommendation versus forbidden. I am not trying to start any fights, but I would like to be armed with information from an Numismatic point of view to lob back to the class. Edited by oih82w8
11/21/2011 12:11 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
564 Posts |
I don't see the liberty wearing an american flag as clothing. What reference are you using showing the American flag designed as clothing on the ASE and the walking lib half? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
Thats funny! I've had several conversations with "patriotic" folks and none of them believe me when I tell them that their Flag jacket and ball caps are in contrast to the U.S. Flag code. As far as the coins go I would consider that artistic liscence. Just my opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1682 Posts |
According to the US Mint web site: The American Eagle Silver Coin's obverse design is Adolph A. Weinman's full-length figure of Liberty in full stride, enveloped in folds of the flag, with her right hand extended and branches of laurel and oak in her left. The reverse design, by United States Mint sculptor/engraver John Mercanti, features the heraldic eagle with shield, an olive branch in the right talon and arrows in the left. So I don't think that the American flag is being used a piece of clothing. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1372 Posts |
They just couldn't take two "nekkid lady" on a coin hoo hahs in one year. They wrapped her up in the flag to avoid the public outcry of obscenity that Hermann MacNeil's poor quarter design was subjected to. She's buck nekkid under that flag.  The type 2 SLQ is a hack job compared to the style 1. Chance Edited by Chancellor Sutler
11/20/2011 4:53 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Given the overall design of the garment in question, I'm inclined to see it as "bunting" instead of "flag."
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Lady Liberty can carry the flag draped over her any way she wants ...I mean, it's not like we can stop her, or even want to stop her.
I think the point is that the FLAG is not on that coin. A representation of the flag is. The flag code refers to actual flags.
And, while I don't much care to see US flags on t-shirts and baseball caps, as far as I know they are not made by cutting up actual flags.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7840 Posts |
Are you saying that she does not have a "U.S. Flag" draed around her? Looks like Old Glory to me draped (wrapped) over her, in essense covering her up as clothing, not the only clothing she is wearing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
Technically the design of the Wlaking Liberty half dollar would be in violation of the U. S. Code. But it is a bit late to do something about it. Years ago there was an antique shop in Petaluma, CA named Dead People's Junk and when I went inside I saw several pieces of furniture that had actual U. S. flags used as coverings. I was so disgusted by it I walked out. If I had actually seen anyone working in there I don't know what I would have done, it would have been ugly, real ugly. I was in the area three months later and the shop was closed. Ed ANA LM-3175 Marine Corps veteran |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
Gyrene7483 I would have walked out of that shop too! I have a low tolerance for such disrespect -- and I get crabbier about it with each passing year.
But about the coin... does the US code cover representations of the flag or just the flag? Is a photo of the flag to be treated the same as an actual flag? I guess I just always thought that images of the flag were somehow different.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Liberty is not a person it is a concept and is shown as an allegorical representation of a person. I see it as the concept or the idea of LIBERTY being "wrapped up" with the United States as represented by the flag. It is a symbolic union of the two, not clothing.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
Keep the interpretations (opinions) coming...more fuel for the fire in class Wednesday night.
Edited by oih82w8
11/21/2011 10:56 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
More fuel for the fire. I see some are irritated by flag clothing, so, how do you then feel about the thousands of car dealerships that purposely surround their yard with 10-50 large flags with the sole purpose of attracting car sales. They are generally not illuminated at night which they MUST be and only ONE flag is lawfully allowed! I personally find this way more offensive than flags on clothes...Just my 2 cents..
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
 Not offended by flag print clothing just the attitude that SOMETIMES accompanies it.  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts |
oih82w8 Class is on Wednesday....well, here's a question to bring up. Why is it that a whole bunch of people haven't a clue about flag protocol? I honestly don't remember where I learned anything about it -- grade school? with 1893-- I find it offensive to see US flags used disrespectfully by businesses. And to that I would add, I also find Veterans Day sales disrespectful.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I learned flag protocol when I was in the cub scouts. On the other hand the flag is merely a symbol and I am quite tolerant of "direspect" to a symbol. Likewise I will not pledge my allegiance to a symbol. To the country it represents yes, but not to the symbol itself.
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,337 |
Posted 11/20/2011 3:23 pm
