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 Replies: 34 / Views: 7,302 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5855 Posts |
From what I've been reading, it seems that cleaning old coins was considered standard practice for many years and it is only relatively recently that collectors have decided that a coin has to have its original finish in order to have any significant nusmismatic worth (or even be graded by companies such as PCGS).
First of all, is this even true, or has cleaning cons always been frowned upon by collectors?
Second of all, if it is true, when did the shift occur (and why)?
Thanks!
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9864 Posts |
I've been pondering the same question lately so a couple of weeks ago I dug up some old publications to see what I could find.I found an article from 1962 stating that cleaning was a deceptive practice used by unreputable dealers to enhance their wares,and knowledgeable collectors do not buy cleaned coins unless the coin is rare and the price greatly lowered.A dealers want list from 1950 stated that he buys collections,but do not clean the coins before you send them as this will significantly reduce the price offered.So it would seem cleaning has been unacceptable for at least sixty years.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
716 Posts |
I don't have an answer to your question but I find this whole issue of cleaned coins very frustrating. Because of my rural location I am primarily limited to buying coins online, primarily from ebay. I also like to collect raw coins over certified. Given the quality of pictures of many ebay sellers, and just the fact that I am buying a coin I can't truly examine, I am always worrying if I am buying a cleaned coin or not. Also, from what I read on coin cleaning and the limitations of my own abilities, I am not sure that I could always identify a cleaned even if I had it in my hand. That's what it makes it so frustrating to me. That leaves me with 2 options, buy only certified coins or accept the fact that I probably have cleaned coins in my collection. Until I become more adept at identifying cleaned coins this is something I just have to accept. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5855 Posts |
Yah, I figured it wasn't something that occurred during my lifetime. Maybe around the turn of the (last) century?
I collect primarily for the historical interest and not as an investment. I'd hate to pay too much for a coin that has had its value "destroyed" by cleaning, but I am perfectly happy to pick up a cleaned coin with sharp details if the price is right, especially since I don't plan to resell. I simply can't afford many of the older coins with AU+ details that haven't been cleaned at some point in time. As I said, it's all about getting the coin at a discount due to the cleaning (which doesn't always happen, granted, but I try...)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
I am presently looking for a Trade dollar for my 7070. I use ebay quite a bit, and have had some pretty good success. While my pockets don't run very deep, I will save an extra month (or more) to acquire a piece with eye appeal, primarily details. I have seen many non-problematic (uncleaned) Trade dollars from the Big III TPG and most (within my means) are not attractive, dark, splotchy, etc... I have had my eye on a few "Improperly Cleaned" (is there a properly cleaned?) coins, but fell short of bidding on them with the present dilemma; "something better will come along". I am destined (and has already happened) to have a couple of "imperfect" coins in my 7070. Since you can't please everyone...you have to work on pleasing yourself. Edited by oih82w8
12/13/2011 11:04 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Oddly enough I doubt there ever was an actual date, day, year when cleaning coins was considered Good, Bad, Wrong, OK, etc. It slowly materialized as more and more people realized the ramafacations of that practice. A long time ago people used to attempt to restore old furnature, clothing, coins, guns, knives, etc. to make them look like new. I doubt it was always done to fool possible investors or collectors sicne they too cleaned or refurbished items.
Slowly as time went on more and more people realized that cleaning or attempting to restore almost anything removes some or lots of original material.
In some instances it is a necessity such as a really dirty, scratched oil painting. Repairing a bent gun barrel could, and usually does, improve it's value.
However, recently it has been determined by many that removing some or lots of the originality of an object only deminishes it's history. Cleaning coins is one of those items that as a general rule only removes some of it's originality. Sanding down a 15th Century Table, repainting a 17th Century Chair, just distroys what it used to be.
Today most collectors want originality.
As to when it all started, cleaning coins still goes on.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Instruction on some of the old coin boards from the 1930's specificly state that you should shine up you coins with an eraser before putting them in the boards.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
I have had my eye on a few "Improperly Cleaned" (is there a properly cleaned?) coins - If you can tell a coin has been cleaned, it was cleaned improperly.
- A novice is FAR more likely to damage a coin by cleaning it than to improve it.
- People have been advised against cleaning coins for at least 50 years, prolly more.
"Cleaned" can mean anything from soaking in distilled water or acetone to scrubbing with grinding powder. This is why the first response is always don't! |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
There was a time when cleaning was less-important, as well as lacquering and other such preservation methods. However, there's always been a core of purists at the top end of the market, as evidenced by the still-unmolested examples of Early coinage.
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Valued Member
United States
306 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Quote:
However, there's always been a core of purists at the top end of the market, as evidenced by the still-unmolested examples of Early coinage.
I had never thought about it that way, but you nailed it. |
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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts |
At least before 1963 according to another thread circulating around here: collecting coins in 1963.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I recall this was a big no-no in our coin club in the 1970's. Simply it was pointed out that it lowered the value of the coins. We sort of relied on the Red Book for grading and values and a "cleaned coin" was considered to be worth much less than one in original uncleaned condition. So it isn't something new, but it may be more common knowledge which is good. |
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Moderator
United States
188560 Posts |
Quote:
At least before 1963 according to another thread circulating around here: collecting coins in 1963. https://goccf.com/t/105007  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Collecting coins and many other items for well over 60 years, I still remember when I would show a collection of coins to anyone, almost always I would hear, "You really should clean those. They would look so much better". This was way, way back in the 40's and 50's. Many people would be seen spitting on a coin, then rubbing it with their fingers to make it look better or just read what was on it. Any friends of mine that collected coins would also clean them since that is what everyone said to do and they did. And by cleaning, I mean cleaning. We used to use almost anything we could get our hands on to clean a coin. The most popular was Baking Soda and water. Since back then there were few actual antique type places, no such thing as the TV show The Antique Road Show, (of course not, no TV), no internet coin clubs or antique information on the internet, (no computers). I never heard of a coin club, coin show nor how to contact the US Mint either and no one I knew did either. Quote:
From what I've been reading, it seems that cleaning old coins was considered standard practice for many years and it is only relatively recently that collectors have decided that a coin has to have its original finish in order to have any significant nusmismatic worth (or even be graded by companies such as PCGS).
So actually this is true that not cleaning coins is relatively new. I'm sure it was always frowned upon by some but since telling others was not so simple, we all just did what look right. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
19951 Posts |
Cleaning is STILL prevalent and it is mainly done by non-collectors. Next time you have people over, break out an ugly toned coin and show it to everyone. Watch how many will comment about how "you should clean that up". For fun, I ask them just how do they think I should do that. The responses are a RIOT! LOLOLOLOL
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Replies: 34 / Views: 7,302 |
Posted 12/13/2011 10:24 am
