Ann Barnhardt On Pms

I like Ann Barnhardt's attitude a great deal. She is one of the few (and perhaps ONLY) futures traders to get out of an obviously rigged market that is awash with thieves in order to protect her clients' investment money. I tend to take her comments on the futures markets quite seriously, as she has definitely "been there and done that".

I do not agree with her position on PM bars, however. I have found PM bars to be very liquid and immediately recognized by anyone who buys and sells PMs. I have no doubt whatever that I could sell as many of my 5-oz. SilverTowne bars to local dealers as I wanted. The only argument about this might be one of price. But then, that's true of just about any PM sale or purchase.

As to possible fake bars... well, sure, but there are fake coins out there too, so there is no safety from fakes via PM format. Anyone who is set up to buy, sell, and trade PMs would have to have a scale for weighing them and a way to accurately measure their dimensions, so this is not a big problem.

I admit that it is unlikely that anyone would go to the time and trouble of making any fake 90% US silver coins because of their small value and that they could be quite handy as items of day-to-day barter or commerce. I have a stash of 90% silver US coins and I do like having them. I definitely prefer the finer grades, though.

If I needed to buy something of significant value, then gold coins or 5-10 oz. silver bars should do quite nicely.

As a collector, I do like my coins to look nice and be shiny. I am also willing to pay a little more to get such coins because they are more than just bullion to me. I enjoy looking at them and appreciating their history and artistry. Yes, I could buy more cheap culls with the same money but that would not satisfy my over-all interests in coins and collecting them. While I do not get into the numismatic aspects of coin collecting, I do like what I have to look nice and be presentable to anyone to whom I show them. Their good looks also can make them more attractive to a potential buyer than if they were just a bag of ratty looking culls.

In contrast to her opinion on even heavily circulated coins containing the same amount of silver as new coins do, we all know that this is not the case. Coins wear when circulated and in wearing do lose a small amount of their silver or gold content. This may be a small amount but it is not zero.

"I do not agree with her position on PM bars"

She is wise like you said Ed and knows her stuff, but even brilliant minds are not all gonna agree on everything lol. And I just like you on this one I think... SHE IS MISSING THE BOAT, as there are some serious numbers of silver stacker's who go after those nice 5 an 10 oz. silver bars. I know I do, as I love them....

Speaking of which and not to jump tracks, but I just received a fantastic GOLDAS Swiss 2 oz. silver bar, sealed on card with a micro chip card. You can go to their website and match the serial numbers, it is as safe as a PAMP bar IMO. Yet another example of high cost premium silver, that people pay 65 plus an oz. all day on ebay. I love this Goldas bar, and I will upload a picture. Oh, I got it FOR 75 BUCKS, and that is a fantastic price shipping and all for nice 2 oz. Swiss carded assay silver. Check the premiums on those, as I see half oz. or even 10 gram silver bars listed not much less then the 75 bucks, it is ridiculous the premiums many expect on these half oz. to 10 gram silver bars.....

This link is from the dealer I got it from and he has 3 more 10 gram bars listed at 20 each total, lol. But my bar looks just like these, just 2 oz. as opposed to 10 grams, and they are real nice. I am an instant fan of GOLDAS silver bars....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/22091803792....m1438.l2649

Actually, if you got this guy above to combine shipping on all three bars at 5 even, then 15 each is 50 total and not too bad for 1.8 gram short of 1 oz. of silver on three high premium cards compared to many others on ebay who sell similar 10 gram silver bars for much more....

Fantastic info MK! That fake Englehard bar looks wavy, and compared beside the real one the difference is quite astonishing. That is a lousy fake. But me being so new to this, I doubt I would have noticed, IF I did not have a real example to compare it to, as in that great link....

I have heard of Morgans faked as well graded by a reputable company. So that tells me nothing is safe. But great point about the 10 oz. bars that bring more money being more of a target for the cons. I will stick to 5 oz. or less, as 5 oz. is my largest variety of bar, short of that First Majestic Kilo bar. And no doubt it is the real deal, with this amazing frost finish, about the size of a bar of soap....

I did notice on my Morgan 5 oz. Scottsdale bars sealed in plastic, that the sides of the bars is not perfect, but more due to perhaps tiny air pockets in the silver molds along the side. At least, below the surface in that tiny section, it is silver in color, and not copper like a fake for example I have seen. Those 4 oz. replica money bars are ones to watch out for, especially minus a reputable mint and COA and case. The two, or five, or ten or whatever dollar domination. I once had a 12 oz. version, of a Ben Franklin 100 dollar bill. Bought it back in early spring for 400 and sold it for 550 in early fall....

Yes, she does. Her message is about getting the max amount of silver for the least amount of money. OK, fine. If that is what she wants, then more power to her. My comments were that while this is fine, most of us have reasons other than this for collecting. All of the silver coin culls in the world will not satisfy my desire for some NICE LOOKING 90% silver coins.

As to there being fakes in the PM market... of course there are. But knowing what to look for goes a long way towards avoiding them and the bums who knowingly sell them. Heh, talk about fakes... bought a used car lately?

I am in the bang for the buck group. This means getting the most silver for the lowest premium.

I like silver coins over other forms because most people understand coins to some degree and have more faith that they are not fake. My neighbor would not understand the value of a Mexican or British silver dollar but does get the value of the ASE & Maple. In fact he didn't think the others were real coins at all.

I have found coins carry their premiums better with more diversified buyers.

With that said even I like some numismatics. I have often bought Morgans over spot because I love the BU ones. I have bought anniversary sets such as the 2011 5 coin anniversary set. I like silver proofs. I have been known to pay over spot just because I liked a coin or wanted it.

However most of my bullion are those nice new and shiny ASE's and Maples at the lowest possible premium that I can find.

Is it the smart move? Who knows but it meets my wants. The great thing there is far enough silver products to give everyone an opportunity to buy and save in the style that they love.

But rule one is still rule one when it comes to speculation buy the most for the least amount of money. You have a tendency to have a better average cost when you do it this way.

Your are mixing two things. There is bullion then there is silver that appeals to collectors. Nothing wrong with either as they sever two different markets.

Lets put bullion in its proper perspective, how fast can you liquidate it for the best price. Your collector market is much smaller and depends on a unique need. In the case of having to sell silver in hard times such as economy driven cases it would be much harder for you to turn much more profit over spot. Simply stated the collector market would shrink.

A recent example would be my purchase of the ASE 25 year anniversary sets. I paid far more than spot at $60oz. Those that sold early doubled or made more than the $60 oz. However if I had to sell them tomorrow on Tuesday and needed the money on Tuesday my return would be much more limited. In the event of an economic down turn that would be similar to the great depression the sell may yield spot or less for this item.

It really depends on what your goals are for silver. Some people can get lucky and flip the collectibles, however hold them too long and hit the wrong market and you could loose your premiums big time.

Like I said it all depends on why you speculate in silver and from reading these forums some of us speculate and others don't. Neither is right or wrong as long as you achieve your goals.

Think back to the people who talked about putting all of their 410k into PM's or bought gold with Credit Cards when it was making their run this year. I wonder if they met their goals? I know those that were buying gold over $1,800 an oz are sweating that gold goes up prior to their 0 interest period ends.