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Chinese Charms Including Gold

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 3,336Next Topic  
Valued Member
Jeff 11's Avatar
United Kingdom
497 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2011  07:45 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Jeff 11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Here are some photos of some Chinese charms as part of some large antique Asian coin collections I have recently bought. Some, including the first two pieces, come with auction provenance, however the details with them are fairly lacking. Any info, references etc would be most appreciated. Thanks!

1. gold charm in the style of 10 cash. Interestign hallmarks, similar to Chinese hallamrks I have found for silver around the turn of the 20th century. I've seen similar gold cash style charms for around $1,000 but nothing hallmarked and quite in the style of this. Any opinions or info welcome! Appears to be ex-mount, 22mm, 3.67 grams, comes with an old british auction ticket - unsure which auction house.

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

2 + 3. a Pair of HUGE charm - type bronze pieces. Very interesting and I've not seen any quite like it before. First piece photoed, appears bronze, 105 mm. Second, bronze, 81 mm.



Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

4. A very interesting Large Charm in the form of cash. Comes from the same auction sale originally as the gold charm. Some one has done some work on this piece so much further along, any opinion on potential date and value would be much appreciated.


Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold


Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

5. Last one for now though I've still several more to work on. Appears to be made of bone! Rather interesting, not seen anything like it.

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

Chinese-Charms-Including-Gold

I've been using the excellent reference website, primaltrek, to help with several other charms I have, but hoping maybe someone can help out with these. Many Thanks!
www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5833 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2011  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A very interesting group of charms.

The second large charm is used for trying to get ones relative into high official status or position back in the old dynasty days, much like the "feng shui" objects used in modern time, placed in the family children room to help promote their education level.
Valued Member
manymore's Avatar
United States
347 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2011  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manymore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Quite an interesting collection!


Quote:
1. gold charm in the style of 10 cash. Interestign hallmarks,...

The inscription is guang xu tong bao (.绪e宝) which was used on coins of Emperor De Zong (1875-1908). The reverse side indicates that the coin was made at the Tianjin mint.

This piece was almost certainly made at a later date and at some other place since I am not aware of any gold coins from this period that resemble a common struck copper coin.

Also, I am unclear as to the meaning "in the style of 10 cash". The diameter of the coin is about the same as a standard cash coin. "Ten cash" coins were larger in diameter. Also, all the "10 cash" coins from the Guangxu period were zhong bao (e宝) and not tong bao (e宝).

I know nothing about hallmarks but the Chinese character at the left may be zan (贊) which has various meanings including "support", "praise", "eulogy", etc.

Incidentally, the calligraphy on the coin looks odd to me. It certainly is not in the same style as the official coins issued during the Guangxu reign.


Quote:
2 + 3. a Pair of HUGE charm - type bronze pieces.

These are not charms but bronze mirrors.

The reverse side would be polished so that one could see his/her reflection.

The side with the inscription has a knob in the center through which a cord could be attached to facilitate holding and carrying the mirror.

The first bronze mirror has the inscription "wu zi deng ke" ("子登') which translates as "May your five sons achieve great success in the imperial examinations".

In ancient China, the ideal family was believed to consist of five sons and two daughters. It was every family's wish that their son(s) would be successful in the examinations resulting in a high government position with honor and wealth.

If interested, you may see a Chinese charm with this inscription here.

I know nothing about Chinese bronze mirrors but the second mirror looks vaguely familiar. I think it is modeled after a Western Han Dynasty mirror which I read about some time ago. The center octagon design, I think, is supposed to represent the sun with its rays extending outwards. The symbols in the band near the perimeter represent stars, the moon, clouds and other celestial objects. Actually, you can probably disregard everything I just wrote because I just cannot remember enough to really say anything with confidence.


Quote:
4. A very interesting Large Charm in the form of cash....

This appears to be a very nice reproduction of an official charm issued in 1894 by the court to commemorate the 60th birthday of the Empress Dowager Cixi who was the real power behind the throne in the final years of the Qing Dynasty.

To the ancient Chinese, attaining an age of 60 was a major milestone in life.

You have the correct translation "wan shou wu jiang" (万寿- -) meaning "ten thousand years without limit". This was an auspicious way to wish the Empress Dowager Cixi a long life.

The inscription on the reverse is "da ya" (大e.) which means "great elegance".

The reference is to the Empress Dowager Cixi who was well-educated and a patron of the arts.

She lived in a palace called the "Palace of Gathered Elegance".

There was also an imperial workshop named the "Studio of Great Elegance" where porcelain and other fine works of art were created for her.

There are many reproductions of this charm. Some are well-made and some are fairly crude. Some are "old" while many more are "modern".

If you look at the first charm at this Chinese website, you will see what is considered to be a rare, authentic version of the official palace charm. The strokes in the characters are very thin and finely sculptured.

If you scroll down, you will see reproductions of the charm in varying degrees of excellence and age.

I learned something very interesting in reading this article (actually a thread in a forum).

In the very first image, please look very closely at the "wu" (無) character, meaning "without", which is to the right of the square hole. There are four vertical lines in the center of the character. If you look at the third vertical line from the left, you will notice that it is slightly shorter than the others.

Apparently, only the authentic pieces have this characteristic. In all the reproductions this stroke is the same length as the others.


Quote:
5. Last one for now though I've still several more to work on. Appears to be made of bone! Rather interesting, not seen anything like it.

This is actually a reproduction of an ancient Chinese coin. The inscription reads "tian ce fu bao" (天-府宝).

This inscription was used on a very rare iron coin cast in 911 by "Supreme Commander Ma Yin" of the Kingdom of Chu (907-951) during the "Ten Kingdoms" period.

I cannot date or give values for any of the pieces in your collection but I hope you find the above information helpful.

(Unfortunately, the software on this site will not display certain Chinese characters.)

Gary
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macmercury's Avatar
United States
5833 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2011  01:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A good history lesson and information Gary, thanks for clarifying it.
Valued Member
Jeff 11's Avatar
United Kingdom
497 Posts
 Posted 01/04/2012  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jeff 11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Garry (manymore) - I can't thank you enough for your hugely informative reply. Some really interesting background information to the pieces there, it has set me off on a lot of new research.

It seems from a little further reading the mirrors' in the style of the Han dynasty is likely of later creation in the Ming Dynasty, the second piece perhaps a little earlier from the Song Dynasty.

I'm left particularly intrigued by the last piece - the bone piece in the style of a coin of Supreme Commander Ma Yin. Having looked more it certainly seems to be made of some kind of bone and its' general condition gives it a degree of age. Though I doubt it would be contemporary with the original, I am left very curious as to its purpose. I have a friend who has access to a carbon dating lab, depending on how small a sample would be needed, I'm almost tempted to give it a shot to find out, though it may not be possible if to intrusive a sample is needed.

Anyway thanks again for your help. If you enjoyed seeing the charms, I've several more interesting pieces that I have incomplete information on, which I will post on the forum very shortly, Feel free to take a look.
Thanks,
Jeff
www.kingstoncoincompany.co.uk
Valued Member
Cajunlady0's Avatar
United States
318 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2012  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cajunlady0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
May I ask what the difference is between the actual coin and a charm? Is a charm a reproduction of the original coin? ( sorry for this question, am just trying to learn as I find these fascinating)
Valued Member
coinsnpaper's Avatar
Canada
480 Posts
 Posted 01/09/2012  04:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A coin was made for circulation. A charm was made to bring good luck. Some charms will have a coin inscription on one side, and a charm inscription on the other- The "Under Heaven Great Peace", for example, which was issued at the start of a new reign. Other charms will have the coin inscription on one side, and a pictorial design on the other side- the dragon/Phoenix design, for example. Others will have charm inscriptions on both sides, or a charm inscription on one side and a pictorial design on the other. They can be made at the time they are claiming to be from, but most are copies/replicas/concoctions that date from much closer to the current date. They are for good luck, and that is always needed.
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