Posted 01/10/2007 01:02 am
I have serious concerns about both coins. There are some very recent Chinese copies hitting the market made of silver. They are all produced from decent transfer dies and in scans they look fine - because they are exact copies of real coins. These coins are usually between 26.8 and 27.1 grams and are 0.900 to 0.999 fine silver depending on the particular forger.
So far they all do very bady in applying the edge designs. So look for a couple things.
First - irregular overlaps. I have covered that on other threads but the key thing is to insure there are TWO overlaps of identical length exactly opposite one another. A ONE lap edge is a fake.
Second - Look for circles that are irregular - not round or that are incomplete.
Third - Look for variations in spacings and patterns. One one entire recent series of Chinese fakes the edge has one place where two circles touch - ONLY ONE SPOT. To be real there would have to be a second.
Fourth - Look for a boarder line outside the circle square pattern
Fifth - Look for an edge design that wanders side to side with no cause apparent in the form of a distorted planchet.
Sixth - look at the edge for diagonal cut marks - if these are seen on ONE half of the edge and NONE appear on the other half be VERY careful - you likely have a Boston forgery from 1890 - 1920.
If you have any of these problems be suspicious. If you can post scans of the edge.
Once the Chinese elimate these problems - they are going to be next to impossible to spot in scans.
On the 1797, I think I see the hint of a seam line above the dot HI (in HISPAN)on the shield side. It also looks artificial in color and there are no detracting marks - a typical Chinese looking piece. But I might be way off base. These newer Chinese copies are giving me fits. It often takes seeing two coins with identical dings before I can be 100% positive.
The 1805 has a few "lumps" that are suspect - see the area over the 0 in the date and the bust near the truncation between the 8 and 0 in the date. I am also bothered by the color and what may be "hollow" dentils in several spots.
I hope I am wrong and that they are real, but until I know a bit more I wouldn't bet the farm on them.
echizento - the mint mark you question is the Limae monogram - it is correct.
So far they all do very bady in applying the edge designs. So look for a couple things.
First - irregular overlaps. I have covered that on other threads but the key thing is to insure there are TWO overlaps of identical length exactly opposite one another. A ONE lap edge is a fake.
Second - Look for circles that are irregular - not round or that are incomplete.
Third - Look for variations in spacings and patterns. One one entire recent series of Chinese fakes the edge has one place where two circles touch - ONLY ONE SPOT. To be real there would have to be a second.
Fourth - Look for a boarder line outside the circle square pattern
Fifth - Look for an edge design that wanders side to side with no cause apparent in the form of a distorted planchet.
Sixth - look at the edge for diagonal cut marks - if these are seen on ONE half of the edge and NONE appear on the other half be VERY careful - you likely have a Boston forgery from 1890 - 1920.
If you have any of these problems be suspicious. If you can post scans of the edge.
Once the Chinese elimate these problems - they are going to be next to impossible to spot in scans.
On the 1797, I think I see the hint of a seam line above the dot HI (in HISPAN)on the shield side. It also looks artificial in color and there are no detracting marks - a typical Chinese looking piece. But I might be way off base. These newer Chinese copies are giving me fits. It often takes seeing two coins with identical dings before I can be 100% positive.
The 1805 has a few "lumps" that are suspect - see the area over the 0 in the date and the bust near the truncation between the 8 and 0 in the date. I am also bothered by the color and what may be "hollow" dentils in several spots.
I hope I am wrong and that they are real, but until I know a bit more I wouldn't bet the farm on them.
echizento - the mint mark you question is the Limae monogram - it is correct.
Edited by swamperbob
01/10/2007 01:07 am
01/10/2007 01:07 am
