| Author |
 Replies: 7 / Views: 5,560 |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
1304 Posts |
a little tid bit of info: the chop mark, there are those that hate the infamous chop mark and those that love it. to compete in the orient with the Spanish real a coin was minted with 420 grains of silver, the Trade dollar. oriental banks and merchants would counter-stamp the coin with a Chinese character as a testimony of the coins worth. today the chop mark is both hated and loved by the numismatist. is it a damaged and mutilated coin, or a thing of beauty proving its successful trip to the orient and back. what do you think? |
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
Some information I posted before on another numismatic board, which talks about the history of the "chop": quote:
Chopmarks are in the same category as test marks and edge cuts. Here's a bit of a history behind them:
During late 17th and early 18th century silver imported into China traded for Chinese goods and had intrinsic value. That intrinsic value became an addition to the total real wealth of China. As trade increased, China's real wealth grew, because China had a favorable balance of trade, in mercantilist terms. The economic health of China thus came to depend on foreign silver dollars, and the dollars had to have credibility.
China had laws against counterfeiting, but they only applied to currency of the Chinese government. Right there was THE rub. Occasional debased fakes were a nuisance over the years. But, with war breaking out between England and Spain in 1779, shipments of Spanish coins dwindled to a trickle, not nearly enough to finance trade with China. To meet this emergency, the East India Company had molds made, and set about casting copies of Carolus dollars of 1778. However, the coining was farmed out to local officials and local labor. The intent of the company was to produce coins of full silver content for their own use. But things did not work out as intended. The natives, out for a quick profit, made for the company coins debased to .600 fine.
After that, things went bad. Local officials, seeing the opportunity for instant riches, had Canton silversmiths make even more debased copies of the 1778 Carolus dollar. Since no violation of Chinese law was involved, private parties soon went into the counterfeiting business for themselves. The resultant flood of debased fakes shook the public's confidence in foreign silver coins, and that threatened to undermine the whole Chinese economy. The situation got to the "Something Has Got To Be Done!" stage, and that something was chopmarks.
At some time after the fake 1778's started pouring out, merchants and bankers guilds took action to require each merchant and banker to chop each coin they handled, thus putting their endorsement on the coin and guaranteeing its genuineness. The time when this policy came into being cannot be fixed with any accuracy, but it was probably between 1780 and 1785.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
well at one time I would have said atleast if it had crop marks it was authentic, but now the forgers are applying fake crop marks on their fake coins to make unsuspecting collectors think they are real.Now do I think the coin is damaged, that is debatable because it is post mint damage but it was done for a purpose. I would probably buy a crop marked Trade dollar if it was out of the focal point and you had to look hard to tell it was there. But I know others that collect Trade dollars with crop marks because some of the crop marks are rather rare (or atleast that is how it was explained to me) |
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1304 Posts |
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Czech Republic
803 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Bryan1315
well at one time I would have said atleast if it had crop marks it was authentic, but now the forgers are applying fake crop marks on their fake coins to make unsuspecting collectors think they are real.Now do I think the coin is damaged, that is debatable because it is post mint damage but it was done for a purpose. I would probably buy a crop marked Trade dollar if it was out of the focal point and you had to look hard to tell it was there. But I know others that collect Trade dollars with crop marks because some of the crop marks are rather rare (or atleast that is how it was explained to me)
When considering chopmarked coins, you have to look at a number of factors. For example, rarity of chopmarked coins starts with the scarcity of the coin itself, and then depends on whether a quantity, or any of the coins, either the type or particular date and/or mintmark were shipped to China. chopmarked French Indo-China Piastres, for example, are common and can be collected without too many problems, if one has patience. Chopmarked coins are highly collectible. You can collect based on physical characteristics of the chopmark - small/large chops, chops in relief, assay chops, letter chops, number chops, manchu chops (chops in manchu script, considered rare), bankers ink chops (in red, blue, purple ink), paper chops (like a "Happy Wedding" chop) and presentation chops (drawn in India ink and usualy are very elaborate, covering the entire coin). You can also collect based on identification and meaning of them, but you would need knowledge of Chinese characters or a guide of sort, listing various chop marks and who made them. ~Roman |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
751 Posts |
Interesting to learn that Chinese numismatic deception has a rich tradition.
(As an aside, I really had to struggle to keep the invective from this post!)
|
|
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts |
There is an exception to this case. When the Japanese silver coins were minted, "gin" countermarks were made in the mint intentionally so that these coins were only for export purposes, i.e. cannot be used back in Japan other than bullion value.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseriesMy numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htmRegularly updated at least once a month. |
|
Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by texasmick
Interesting to learn that Chinese numismatic deception has a rich tradition.
(As an aside, I really had to struggle to keep the invective from this post!)
That comment brought the best smile of the day to my face.  |
| |
Replies: 7 / Views: 5,560 |
|
Posted 01/11/2007 2:20 pm
Scan0006.gif
Scan0009.gif
