Grade Of This Morgan?

I'm thinking VF 25 or so maybe 30......plus appears to have been cleaned....hard to tell from the photo's. Last coin show I went to one of the dealers had a 93-s in a PCGS holder VF-35 and looked much better than this one.....he wanted 4k for it. Had I had the money that would have been a purchase.

On second thought no better than VF 25 probably VF 20.

No better than VF20-25 details, and there's absolutely no way to evaluate the surfaces since the images are scans rather than photos. The asking price is $3000 higher than I'd dare on this coin, even if I had $3k to risk on what would be a chancy proposition at that price.

What I've seen is the auction prices of this coin are much lower than what many dealers ask.....at least in my neck of the woods. I'm looking for one in fine condition problem free.....still haven't seen the right deal for me. The dealers around me tend to be much tougher on key dates than common dates. They won't budge much from retail.....which really does not make much sense to me because I know the coins have been sitting there and I know they have a pretty decent margin.

But if dealers are going by the GreySheets to buy coins, and actual market is lower, then the dealer can be left holding inventory that's overpriced.

Perhaps the method GreySheet uses to calc pricing is not really indicative of the true market?

What many old-time dealers have yet to realize is that the advent of the Internet has created an entirely new and separate market for coins, one which operates at a far lower margin and entices a more....price-conscious buyer. The major auction houses - Heritage, Stacks/Bowers, Teletrade - have seen their effective market multiply by orders of magnitude, and let's not even get started on ebay.

"Traditional" B&M dealers have been somewhat insulated by the large living base of collectors who are up in years and not Internet-centric. As this generation reaches its' span and passes the torch on to a younger demographic, I see the near-demise of the "physical presence" coin dealer. Those who do business at the highest end of the market, whose name and experience draws the deep-pockets collector who wishes to be physically involved in the process, will not suffer but everyone else will. The smarter B&M dealers will increasingly move their offers online, as they become unable to justify a physical presence.

Given the narrower margin, prices paid at wholesale for coins will inevitably drop. This is already happening at all levels; I just don't think the price guide publishers have quite caught up yet due to their vested interest in higher numbers, and the fact that they're mostly "old-time" people themselves.

This is not to express any judgment on my part; I'm just calling it as I see it.

Perhaps this is a hijack better suited to another thread / subforum, but this implies a problem with the GreySheets.

Since apparently they're based on some system of reporting dealer to dealer trades. Yet, as Dave says, they have access to another market segment.

I'd love to cancel my Greysheet subscription and instead have a Web trade sheet.

I saw this as a VF 20 possibly cleaned which means him starting the bidding at $5900 is high.
I would not spend that much for a unslabbed coin.
Thanks everyone for your response. I was checking if I was on the right track.

Yeah, on second look I guess I see a VF+. Maybe a little too optimistic this AM. I still think this is about a $6000 coin, barring any problems with it of course. It's just real hard to get this coin for a "deal" being that it's considered by many to be the #1 Morgan to own.
As for prices going down on rare coins, I just don't see this happening. I think most prices now are going to be considered steals in the years to come. I would say if you can get a Semi-Key to Key date Morgan at any where near Grey Sheet price you are doing OK. I've seen well positioned dealers paying over GreySheet ask for "good specimens", without a CAC or + or * on the holder.