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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,601 |
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Valued Member
United States
292 Posts |
The more detailed your explanation the more I'll know for future reference.  I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of coverage on this topic.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
I find I go to this page and click on the type of coin I want to grade. Each has the same guidelines as listed in the Red Book for basic grading. http://www.coincommunity.com/us_coin_facts/The rest comes from my experience but I still often have to look at those simple guidelines quite often.
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Valued Member
 United States
292 Posts |
Who is this experience gentleman you speak of and how do I go about hiring him? I've been referencing Red Book's guidelines and cross-referencing PCGS Photograde. It should be noted that I'm talking about lower quality ebay pictures. Most of the pictures on CCF are a dream come true. I'm having trouble in the XF to MS range in terms of detail wear (strike comes into play here as well). Lustre/Eye-Appeal/Surface Preservation are easier for me.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
The experience is a personal thing I think. Each collector earns their own education and pays the dues to get it. I think we all learn from mistakes. Ask the seller for better images politely if you are really considering the coin and explain what you want to see and know as far as those points go on luster and strike quality. If they really want to sell the coin and are good sellers they will try to accommodate you. If it is just a $1.00 coin, well I can see where they might not respond with a great effort but some still will answer you with a reply even if the sale does not involve a lot of money. Sometimes you can only work with what you have in those lower quality images. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. I have ended up with coins that were way better than expected, but I had a hunch they might be when I went with poor images.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21786 Posts |
A good strategy to grading from pictures presented on the screen, is to first consider the quality of the picture. With a poor picture fair grading is impossible. Next you need a good grading standard that is universally accepted, such as the Red Book standards for U.S. coins. In responding to a required opinion to be expressed in this forum, it is best to look at any relevent detail to the grade that is presented in the picture, and comment on it. After also considering the overall appearance and the individual comments, a grading opinion can be arrived at. I note that auction catalogers use this technique.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote: I'm somewhat surprised at the lack of coverage on this topic. You shouldn't be. Grading is a bit vague for most people. I know I stink at attepting to grade a coin. I go to many coin shows and usually amazed at how even dealers have some really poor grades on their coins. Some are what to me appears way under what I thought and many others are excessive. I've gone to many coin stores and see the same thing, lots of guessing. There are numerous books on that subject and as already noted even the Red Book has numerous explanations of grades. I sometimes think coin dealers are like used car sales people. They'll tell you what they think you want to hear. 
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Valued Member
 United States
292 Posts |
After mulling it over for the night I think I'm going to purchase a few books on grading. Red Book is a good quick reference but I need deeper detail and more elaborate explanations. I'm thinking ANA Grading first and either Photograde or Making the Grade as a secondary pick up. So much to learn and so little time is my favorite problem to overcome.
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
By all means, buy the books. But also, register at Heritage Auctions (ha.com) and take advantage of their huge archive (1.4 million coins and counting) of high-resolution images from past auctions. That will give you a feel for how the major TPG's grade coins; you're going to probably see some differences from "official" standards. Grading from photos is a gradual process, experience built on experience. What you see in a photograph is not what you'd see with your eye. Keep in mind, a photograph large enough to grade from is far larger on your screen than the actual coin is, and minor marks will be magnified as a result. Generally speaking, the more accurate the photograph, the more likely you are to miss the actual grade on the low side. These are corrections you need to learn to make subconsciously. Of course, there's also the completely unrelated skill of interpreting poor photographs. It's extremely difficult, and it really pays to be a photographer yourself so you'll have an understanding of what it took to make a shot look that bad. Improper white balance? Shot on an angle? Poor focus? Too wide an aperture, meaning insufficient depth of field? Filling in those blanks can only be achieved with experience, and a lot of it. I cannot count the thousands upon thousands of images I've viewed - for instance, I look at every single 1921 Morgan offered on ebay, and as of this writing there are 3000 of them. I've also shot a few coins of my own; there are 8800 of my own images archived on this computer, I didn't transfer the whole archive to this new machine and that's only the ones I kept. And I'll tell you plainly, after all this I'm only "getting" good at it. I still get burned on occasion by an ebay purchase I misinterpreted. I'm not trying to discourage you - this is an absolutely necessary skill in the age of the Internet - but I wish you to have a realistic idea of what's involved.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
 And here is a tip. Hold down the Ctrl key and use your mouse wheel to zoom in and out of pictures posted on websites. BAM! 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
SuperDave sort of said what I was trying to say only he explained it all. I just took the short version. I've acquired a few books on grading but never got around to even opening them which is probably why I know so little about grading.
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Valued Member
 United States
292 Posts |
@SuperDave: it seems we're always on the same page. One of the first things I did was to set up a RSS Push feed from ebay for all Peace dollars listed. To my surprise that was a bit overwhelming but I kept up for a couple days. I then revised my feed to only toss me the low priced Peace dollars. The photo quality on the lower end coins is almost always horrible (I wasn't surprised). That's what got me here. My next step will be to filter out any coins that aren't slabbed and graded by PCGS. I think reviewing coins graded by the same company and comparing the coins to their grade should be helpful. The "interpreting a poor photograph" topic is at the front of my mind a lot of the time. I wish there was a resource that took pictures of coins and explained how the picture was taken, why it looks the way it looks, and how that should be interpreted. Like you said the best avenue to gain a better understanding may be by taking my own pictures. Just out of curiousity, what made you choose the 1921 Morgan? Volume? @Drsandman2: Something I've been toying with is the magnify tool provided by Windows. I'm not sure if it's on the older versions but in 7 it allows you a few magnification levels and the ability to invert the colors. Inverting the colors is interesting but I'm not sure if it helps.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Coin Grading books are a start to learning the art but you will still need coins in hand to go along with the books. It takes many years of looking at thousands of coins to become somewhat comfortable without having to use a book reference. Also grading the photos on websites is a skill aquired after grading coins in hand, not the other way around. It's always best to learn grading without the use of magnification as the dings get magnified and appear larger than what they are. Also because Strike is very important photos can't really show this because they are not 3-D. Good luck!
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Valued Member
United States
93 Posts |
Great thread, something so basic that doesn't get enough attention. I am definitely not an expert but have learned a lot through my experiences of purchasing coins online since rediscovering my childhood hobby / obsession. Like many, I have received a dog when I thought it looked like a Gem, but happily I have been very pleasantly surprised as well. It really helps to become familiar with a sellers photos, those who you go back to time and again.
For an easy example, Dave Enders, it took a while to know what to look for in one of his coin images, but after some experience, I can spot a real gem immediately and am never surprised. With his images and being that most are "moderns" you can assume that the luster is there even though you can't see it in the soft even lighting. Other sellers image coins to show luster which is helpful but that is often when I find hits being somewhat hidden by the glare or hot spots.
In a perfect world, it would be great to see images with soft even lighting and also the more harsh lighting that shows luster. Also, grading is an opinion, but it is very helpful to get to know what a seller calls choice, gem or superb. One seller may say gem is MS64 while another claims it is the more acceptable MS65+. Again, with experience in dealing with a certain seller, you get to know how they grade and get familiar with their images. Just my thoughts..
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,601 |
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