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Does This Appear To Be Real Or Counterfeit?

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Irishraider's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2007  4:59 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Irishraider to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Does this coin appear to be real or a counterfeit? Would it be worth the $7 assuming nobody else bid on it that is?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...WA:IT&ih=009

Been wanting to get one of these but don't want a counterfeit. Thanks for any help as I know nothing of this type of coin.

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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16827 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2007  03:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks OK to me.

Krause CV for a Potosi mint 2 reales 1774 is $37.50 in VG. I wouldn't be that generous with the grade of this one, but it still sounds like a good buy.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Czech Republic
803 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2007  08:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwoKopeiki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might be just paranoid, but the reverse displays jumping denticles and surfaces that have a feel of a cast.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2007  08:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Irishraider I have a snipe bid on that particular coin because I believe there is a good chance it may be a counterfeit. For that reason, my bid is above Krause.

Bolivian dies are not as well made as the Mexican dies of the same year but to me the coin looks like it was made from a fabricated die - the elements just seem wrong to me. It appears to be a punched die because of the matched As and Is for example, but the letter thicknesses are far from uniform as in the case of the L in CAROLUS. I am also attracted by the very deeply set eye on the King's portrait and the irregular dentils.

It may be real, as I said above Potosi produced poorer dies. But it is worth checking - at least to me.
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Irishraider's Avatar
United States
1454 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2007  7:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Irishraider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks guys. I want to get an authentic version of one someday. Want to get an 8 real also and the grade isn't too important as long as all the letters and features are clear. I have taken this one off of my watch list because I was hoping to get it for about the $2 it was started at. LOL, I know, not much chance but I always hope.

Bob, if you do get it, I would be interested what you find out about it.

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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2007  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Irishraider - I think you will need to up your budget a significant amount to get even a good counterfeit. Actually a decent contemporary counterfeit 2R is a $200 item - average AG examples are in the $50 range. Modern counterfeits sell at $5 to 15 and originals like the VG you started this thread with are $8 to 10 items. But I think you need to set your sights a bit higher in grade as well and plan to spend about $20 to $30 for common dates from Mexico and Bolivia (the common mints). I think that Fine is about minimum to meet your criteria of clear lettering. The Charles III 2Rs from Bolivia are your best bet - they are VERY common. For the 8Rs look at the Ferdinand VII issues for bargains.

The prices in Krause tend to be unrealistic from what I see. I would say that the 2Rs are typically about a grade level underpriced. This gets even worse in the very high grades because so many dates simply do not exist in grades of EF or higher. The later Mexican coins from the War of Independence are very hot and sell for 2-4 times Krause prices. Scarce dates and die varieties are also increasing in value exponentially.

The 8Rs tend to be better preserved and Krause prices are more reasonable, but still on the low side by about 25%.
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