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 Replies: 47 / Views: 4,563 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
I hear too many times about how GREAT ebay is for the seller and buyer, so I thought that I would take a quick look at some finished auctions of Morgan dollars to see just how GREAT ebay is. First, the story goes how easy it is to sell on ebay while cutting out the middle man. Don't let the dealers make the money that you can. Second, how great the deals are. Don't pay extra to the dealer. So I pull up the first four certified Morgan dollars that have been sold and lets see. 1878 8TF NGC MS-62 ebay $141.38 Dealer $115.00 Great for seller, sucks for buyer. 1878-S Anacs MS-63 ebay $33.00 Dealer $50.00 Great for buyer, sucks for seller. 1878-S NGC MS-63 ebay $38.01 Dealer $50.00 Great for buyer, sucks for seller. 1900-P PCGS MS-64 ebay $75.00 Dealer $48.00 Sucks for buyer. Now as the story goes, ebay is the greatest place to buy and yet the greatest place to sell. Well folks, it can't be both. While ebay is the largest flea market in the world, I cannot see where anyone can claim it is that great. The vast majority of coins being sold are raw. A quick look shows many cleaned, many suspect, and some just plain over graded. As demonstrated many times here on the forum, grading is just about impossible to do from a photo. I know of a handful of dealers who make a pretty good living on ebay, and none of them complain about the "deals" the buyers are getting. Overall the properly graded coins are being bought and sold for about the same price as those offered by traditional dealers. Once you factor in the shipping, fees, and overall time involved, it would take an awful lot of "PROOF" for me to ever consider using ebay. |
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
I don't buy on ebay a lot but ebay is all about convenience in my eyes. And I am not just talking about being able to buy from your computer chair in your PJs either. If I go to ebay right now, I can find at least 10 certified 1900 Morgans in the 63-65 range for sale that I can choose from. And that is about any day of the week. Could I do that at my local dealer? I would be lucky if he had one certified. Take into account raw and the difference would be even higher, I would imagine. How many online dealers would I have to investigate before I found 10 or so with the coin in stock? The only thing in my eyes that comes close to the convenience of ebay is a large show and that usually only lasts a day or maybe two and you have to be able to actually get to it. ebay is there every day and they don't leave early on Sunday. ;) Having said that, I don't shop ebay alot except for World coin sets that I rarely find anywhere else. I prefer to deal with other collectors, my local dealer, a couple of online and forum dealers and the occasional show that I can go to. But even with those options, sometimes ebay is the only place I can find a certain item in the condition I am looking for. I don't go in expecting any real 'deals'. I just want the coin. Edited for spelling...as usual.  Edited by Stujoe
05/15/2005 4:46 pm
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Forum Mom
 United States
5877 Posts |
ebay is a good tool if used properly...that goes for buying or selling. Buyers can get good deals, but it requires a lot of self-education and careful shopping. It means letting coins go without bidding because there is a question about the seller or the pics aren't good enough, or a million other reasons. It requires a great deal of patience. For selling...it's great for advertising. At this point, that's about as far as I'm willing to go. Everyone here knows that we sell on ebay (and make a decent living at it), but being surrounded by unscrupulous sellers and junk is getting old. The worst part is that these junk coins are often bringing in more money than accurately described coins with good pics. This is because everyone sees ebay as a big "attic sale" with thousands of dollars worth of undiscovered treasure. Unlike many flea markets and yard sales, the items on ebay have been searched, picked over, and generally scrutinized so that most sellers DO know the value of what they're selling and have found ways to get more than it is actually worth. Add to that that anyone can buy whatever they want there with the seller remaining anonymous and you have the makings of a real problem. Yes, we are still selling on ebay. Do we like it? We do not. It is a stepping stone to begin sales from our own website with an existing customer base. Many of the good sellers are leaving ebay to do this very thing. Where will ebay be in another year or two? I shudder to think of the possibilities.
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Valued Member
United States
421 Posts |
I would love to see you sell from a Website.
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Forum Dad
United States
24154 Posts |
quote:
so I thought that I would take a quick look at some finished auctions of Morgan dollars to see just how GREAT ebay is.
Unfortunately ND your sampling is flawed. In order for it to be accurate there are many variables that would have to be equal in the auctions selected for it to begin to be accurate. Feedback, quality of photos, history of a seller (have they been selling happy meal toys, then have one coin?), starting price?, was there a reserve on it?,private auction?, private feedback?, and the list goes on. All these things greatly affect how and if people bid. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1247 Posts |
I don't view ebay as a place to get "bargins." There are no bargins, you get what you pay for. I see ebay as place that end runs the limitations of coin shows. Education is good, but too many collectors *that should know better* forget the most basic tenet: "There is no Santa Claus in numismatics." Lee Hewitt--Founder of Numismatic Scrapbook |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
I can't find a 1900P Morgan PCGS MS64 for $48.00 dollars. Do you have 10 common, different dates and or mint mark Morgans available for that price? If so please send me ten and I will pay you accordingly. I am not a Morgan collector but for that money I'll invest in ten, maybe more. I have been posting questions about the whole collecting world buying wholesale. It just can't be! Now if you can sell me those Morgans for $48.00 and you got PCGS to slab them for even $10.00, paid something to ship them back and forth, exactly what did the the poor seller get paid for those coins? Who says ebay is a great deal anyway? Competetive maybe, but nobody's giving anything away! See Below. Mike  Description 1900P $1 MS64 PCGS. The current Coin Dealer Newsletter (Greysheet) wholesale "bid" price is $48.00.(#7264) (Registry values: P2, N208) Previous Prices from Heritage Auctions Lot Date Grade Service Realized Sale 372, Lot 9327 Saturday, May 7, 2005 64 PCGS $74.75 Sale 25041, Lot 13552 Tuesday, April 5, 2005 64 PCGS $60.00 Sale 25033, Lot 11441 Tuesday, March 15, 2005 64 PCGS $103.50 Edited by Mike
05/16/2005 06:25 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2724 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by bobby131313
[quote]Unfortunately ND your sampling is flawed. In order for it to be accurate there are many variables that would have to be equal in the auctions selected for it to begin to be accurate.
Feedback, quality of photos, history of a seller (have they been selling happy meal toys, then have one coin?), starting price?, was there a reserve on it?,private auction?, private feedback?, and the list goes on. All these things greatly affect how and if people bid.
Any comparison would have some flaws. The logic you have used also applies to regular dealers. Dealers with a "bigger" name get bigger prices. David Hall is a perfect example. I am not trying to say that my review is perfect, but consistant with all that I have seen over the years. For every "good" deal that I have seen, I have seen many more "bad" deals. My purpose in this thread was to get people to look for themselves. Too often, collectors look for the easiest possible solution, and accept the common myths as facts. Stujoe offered one good reason to use ebay. They are like a large coin show, with many coins available. An experience collector may be able to find good deals on a regular basis based on attribution or very good grading skills, however, it is not nor will ever be the greatest show on earth. I am not trying to knock ebay. They are not a competitor of mine, nor is any seller that I am aware of. It bugs me when I hear how much better ebay prices are versus Dealer prices when I know better. People need to get the facts for themselves. Do the research, check the real prices, and make wise decisions. |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
If you know ebay and a few languages you can buy like 10% below goldprice (melt)here in europe And coindealers there are not many here with every exchange agent selling gold at melt price plus 2 % Dutch 10 Florins went for 51 euro ( versus 62 melt )on ebay France Canadian half ounce coins went for 152 euro versus 166 melt on ebay Germany French Napoleons ( collector grade ) went for 63 euro on germany I got myself a fortuna pamp suisse one ounce bar for 7% below melt On the other hand some ignorant bid up a one hundreth of an ounce (0.3 grams) Kruger of the smallest coins of the world series to the price of a tenth ounce ( that is ten times too much plus postage ) |
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
I have to throw in my Two Cents here. I have bought many items off ebay and have yet to be burned. Probably because I'm careful and don't have a lot of blind trust in the sellers. I have sold many items item on ebay and have no complaints. There are red flags that will keep me off an auction but generally I have fun. Dealing with the dealer can be somewhat tricky if you don't know what your buying. Selling directly to a dealer is a bad senerio for the seller. I have rarely seen a dealer offer more than 15-20% on the dollar for any item you offer except for maybe gold. I would always suggest people sell their coins on ebay. catman |
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Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts |
Catman, my worst loss ever in coins was selling off part of my collection to a dealer when I was desperate for money. I got thumped so hard it made me ill for weeks. So far I've had pretty good luck on ebay. I bought about 45 coins, returned 3 and kept two that I really should have returned! Mike Edited by Mike
05/16/2005 2:17 pm
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Thanks to Susan, who hook me on Canadian Cents, I have been spend quite a bit of time on ebay getting the ones I need for my collection. I'm almost complete now and all were purchased off ebay. Now how do I get back at Susan...? Hey Susan have you ever been snipe hunting..?  catman |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4867 Posts |
What canadian cents do you collect catman? Old or new?
David
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Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts |
Hi nds76,
I have collected all cents from 1858 & 1859 and 1876 to 2005. So far I need only 6 to have the collection complete. All common ones at that.
catman
steve
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Catman, my worst loss ever in coins was selling off part of my collection to a dealer when I was desperate for money. I got thumped so hard it made me ill for weeks.
Now don't think me as "dealer" happy here, but who's fault is it that you got thumped? There are roughly 3500 dealers in the U.S. Now the percentage of those who would happily rip you off are probably pretty high. Being a dealer doesn't make you honest. However, knowing your material and your price is the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. When I am offered coins, my first question is "How much do you want for these?" I either buy the coins or pass on the coins. I do not counter the offer, nor engage in auctioning with the seller. When I sell coins, I state "Here is my price" Either the customer buys it or they pass on it. The rules work the same way back and forth. If the person offering the items, (and sometimes it is me) doesn't know what they have, that is their fault. Plain and simple. There is no real excuse for not knowing your material these days. Between hundreds of books, countless price guides, grading books, internet groups, the excuse of attempting to sell something you know nothing about is lousy at best. Now, having said all that, dealers have to leave a little room to make money. Now this does not mean that they have to rip you off. I can usually sell coins for over the book value because I sell better coins, so I can pay better prices. Now if you are selling run of the mill coins that every dealer in the country has a ton of them, well you can expect less than book value. ebay seems to be no difference. Sellers who are selling coins below book value, are paying less or they would not be selling many. Nobody continues to sell if they are losing money. Business basics number 1. Since most people are far too lazy to learn, they suffer the fate of their effort. This goes whether buying or selling. |
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Moderator
United States
23507 Posts |
eBay, ebay, ebayBoth good & bad Hav had some successes but when Susan & I found a scoundrel this morning - Just had to laugh. Only bid on his own auctions under another name. Does it just to raise prices. Hmmm I have never had a dealer do that to me. In fact I have had dealers refund money or send me an extra coin because there was an error in the transaction. When I deal with a dealer. Their word is their bond When I deal with ebay unless I know the seller their idenity I their hiding place. ebay is like coins some like them some do not and some of us are on the DARKSIDE. (By the way ebay is a good place for darkside coins if you live in the USA) rggoodie
aka Richard
"catch em doing something right"
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Replies: 47 / Views: 4,563 |
Posted 05/15/2005 5:25 pm
