Source For Tax Info Related To Coins

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,256
NubieFrank New Member United States 1 Posts	Posted 02/07/2012 10:59 am Looking for tax info in two main areas. If you have some coins, are you supposed to report capital gains annually or when you sell them? I've also heard you can take delivery of coins in your IRA. How do taxes work for them after that? The purchase price wouldn't be used to calculate gains because much of that gain may have been sheltered. Thanks Report this Post to the Staff

SeatedNut Pillar of the Community United States 2797 Posts	Posted 02/07/2012 11:14 am Hello Frank, Quote: If you have some coins, are you supposed to report capital gains annually or when you sell them? There are no capital gains until a sale is made. Some states collect property taxes annually and increased valuation may be taxable under those codes, but you'd have to check locally. Quote: I've also heard you can take delivery of coins in your IRA. How do taxes work for them after that? The purchase price wouldn't be used to calculate gains because much of that gain may have been sheltered. Most IRAs are "pre-tax". This defers taxation on assets until the holder liquidates and is presumably in a smaller tax bracket. Your taxes on the liquidation would be for capital gain while it sat in the IRA (sell price minus purchase price). Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 02/07/2012 4:28 pm You should get a tax accountant to be sure, but profits or losses don't happen until you sell. When silver dropped from 1980 highs, some people sold their silver, then bought it back. This allowed them to take the loss against regular income. There is a waiting period before buying back. I don't know under what circumstances coin profits are capital gains or just regular income. Report this Post to the Staff
trdhrdr007 Pillar of the Community United States 2335 Posts	Posted 02/07/2012 6:12 pm I'm with biggfredd. If you want the real answer talk to a tax specialist. Quote: Most IRAs are "pre-tax". This defers taxation on assets until the holder liquidates and is presumably in a smaller tax bracket. Your taxes on the liquidation would be for capital gain while it sat in the IRA (sell price minus purchase price). I'm not sure that's entirely correct. A regular IRA generally holds income that hasn't been taxed. Taxes are deferred on the original amount + any gain. It's my understanding that withdrawals are taxed at regular income rates & not capital gains rates. Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 02/07/2012 9:14 pm And as far as having coins in an IRA you are pretty restricted as to what coins you can put in. Also you may not hold the coins, or purchase or sell them yourself. You give instructions to the manager of the IRA and they do it for you. You never see the coins. Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 02/08/2012 2:04 pm As usual most forget that. So I'll do it again. Quote: Most IRAs are "pre-tax". This defers taxation on assets until the holder liquidates and is presumably in a smaller tax bracket. Many places suggest a Roth IRA which is one you pay taxes on now and all invested money is now tax free. But no coinage is allowed since all such investments are in the IRA company as just paper. And with any IRA you have to remember that at a certain age you are required to withdraw a certain amount of loose it to the Federal Government. AND all such withdrawals are taxable unless it is a ROTH IRA. Quote: I've also heard you can take delivery of coins in your IRA. Not sure what you mean but again, anything in the way of a monitary withdrawal is taxable unless from a ROTH IRA. And it is taxable as normal, every day, income. Nothing special, just taxable income money and must be added to your regular income. Such withdrawals are not considered long or short term capital ganes. As to having any organization hold coins, you really should consult a tax expert and have them contact your IRA or other investment organization. Most do not what to deal with any substance that is extreamely flexible in a monitary increase or decrease. As to just being taxed on the sale of coins. That too is pending on so many things. One of which is why report that in the first place. I'm sure all such sales at flea markets on coins is sort of not mentioned on anyones tax statements. However, that is an interesting subject. At a horse race you must list all winnings for taxes. And you also list all losses for a tax loss. So I wonder if when you buy a coin and then sell it for a loss, can you now deduct that from your taxes. Report this Post to the Staff
Conder101 Bedrock of the Community United States 17884 Posts	Posted 02/08/2012 5:54 pm Quote: Not sure what you mean but again, anything in the way of a monitary withdrawal is taxable unless from a ROTH IRA. It is taxable from a ROTH if you withdraw it before you are 59 1/2. Quote: As to having any organization hold coins, you really should consult a tax expert and have them contact your IRA or other investment organization. Most do not what to deal with any substance that is extreamely flexible in a monitary increase or decrease. Most IRA managers don't want to have to deal with tangible assets because they require storage. They would rather just handle "digital" assets. If you do find one that will handle them, be prepared to pay annual storage and insurance fees that will most likely exceed the growth of your assets. Frankly having an IRA manager holding a storing my gold and silver coins sounds a lot like these firms that want to sell you gold and they will store it in their vaults for you for a fee so that you don't have to worry about taking delivery or finding your own storage. Something we are always advised against doing because they have a tendency to go belly up and there is nothing in the vaults. Quote: At a horse race you must list all winnings for taxes. And you also list all losses for a tax loss. So I wonder if when you buy a coin and then sell it for a loss, can you now deduct that from your taxes. You can't list a net loss on your gambling losses. The losses are recorded because they can be used to offset the gains from your winnings. Likewise with your coins you can;t take a net loss unless you are a dealer and have enough records to prove it. If you are a collector the best you can do is use the losses to offset the gains from other sales. And remember your net gains on bullion or numismatic coins carries a capital gains rate of 28%. Report this Post to the Staff
biggfredd Rest in Peace United States 9104 Posts	Posted 02/09/2012 08:04 am Quote: So I wonder if when you buy a coin and then sell it for a loss, can you now deduct that from your taxes. Yes, but only if you are a coin dealer or can prove you bought it as an investment. Report this Post to the Staff
just carl Bedrock of the Community United States 20753 Posts	Posted 02/09/2012 10:44 am Quote: Most IRA managers don't want to have to deal with tangible assets because they require storage. They would rather just handle "digital" assets. If you do find one that will handle them, be prepared to pay annual storage and insurance fees that will most likely exceed the growth of your assets. Having a few IRA's I checked with each organization. TDAmeritrade and Fidelity both said absolutely no holding of such assets as coins or bullion. One more thing about IRA's is it is important to know that by 70 1/2 years old, it is a Federal law that a specific amount is required to be withdrawn periodically. It is considered a RMD or Required Minimum Distribution. There are so many rules and regulations about IRA's that it is imperitive to consult tax experts about them. Report this Post to the Staff
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