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 Replies: 30 / Views: 4,959 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
IMO, MS can only truly be affirmed by the first person to own the coin, based on their word and reputation alone that it came from a bank roll. The best way to know is if it's still in the roll but this isn't always possible. These days I give a big "Yeah, right" to MS and I use my instinct and experience to grade coins. If I know a dealer who grades them properly then it's a faster transaction, but there are many new dealers in the game out there for a fast buck so they grade everything they have at a higher grade, mostly through inexperience.
(I'm not claiming to be an expert, only a collector.)
And now onto coinmart - they seem alright. I got to see their display at Torex. They grade and package their own merchandise and it's relatively okay.
Edited by Libertad
02/20/2012 11:02 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
 So Libertad, what your saying is that every Victorian , Edwardian and King George Mintstate coins that exist on the Planet Earth need to have original owner confirmation that they actually came from a mint roll. Well starting tomorrow I'll visit every senior's home with my 100+ year old coins to see if anyone recognizes 'em and can confirm if it was the coin they took out of a roll 100+ years ago! Glenn  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
I find some of the comments in this thread just silly. If there is no friction on the coins surface which would cause a break in luster it should be in an Uncirculated grade, a finger print does not cause friction or breaks in the luster so there is no way a finger print can make a UNC graded coin a circulated graded coin, it is just evidence that it was at one time handled. All you have to do is look at the coin to see if there are any breaks in the luster, you do not have to have an eye witness account to confirm the coin came straight out of a roll and put up in someones collection to prove it is in uncirculated condition. When you see a coin say its an Uncirculated grade it doesn't automatically mean it NEVER changed hands even in commerce, it just means if it did change hands it was taken out of circulation before any damage was done to the coin that would cause friction to cause a break in luster. So not every coin that is in MS grades never circulated, it just means if they did, they didn't circulate very long. Mint State just means the coin is in the same state it would be in as a coin that left the mint where it has no luster breaks and no wear on the coin, it doesn't mean it never changed hands or that it was in a flip each time it did change hands. A Uncirculated grade like MS is allot different than saying something is Uncirculated like a proof set that is still in the plastic container that it came from the mint in, if someone is talking about coins it does not mean a coin never ever saw circulation. When a coin is Uncirculated it just a state the coin is in not the history of the coin of what happened when the first owner received it from the roll. It is early in the morning and I have had no sleep so I may be talking in circles but I am sure you all know what I am trying to say
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
 Glenn  |
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New Member
Canada
48 Posts |
Some of the finest coins, graded MS66 and 67 have wonderful original toning based off a fingerprint. Long ago, when such coins were originally saved, they had to be pushed into an album slot, with the evidence appearing years later.
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Previously Ousted
Canada
398 Posts |
Uncirculated does mean exactly what it says. it can be handled, but not circulated. Coins in earlier years did not come in rolls. so there will be some bag marks. Nobody will dispute bag marks, but scratches, wear , dings etc... are circulation marks. every coin spotting such indicators is NOT uncirculated. Fingerprints are not relevant and can be on UNC coins. Ohhhhhh, that brings me to the term AU... , totally another deep bucket of rubber bands.... totally stretchabel until the cows come home.. Problem is very clearly that there are NO normed guidelins on which to base a coins definition and grade allocation. everyone, even a TPG has a disclaimer somewhere which goes like this or similar as: grades are my personal opinion and should not form a base for valaution. so, but the coin not the advertising of one. trust your own evaluation. Nobody guarantees a grade. CG |
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Moderator
 Canada
10460 Posts |
This should muddy the waters a bit...  This coin came straight out of a mint roll, which was one of 40 rolls of a box, shipped directly from Winnipeg, the Royal Canadian Mint, in 1995 to a collector here in Ottawa, which I then bought. It is a 1995 50c piece. It is technically, uncirculated. But it has seen all kinds of friction and even interruption of lustre... What would you grade this coin?   "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
02/21/2012 1:34 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
MS-62  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1757 Posts |
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Valued Member
Canada
449 Posts |
I don't think, in my opinion that that coin would rate an MS. Technically, coming from a mint roll, it should, but, (and there's always a but) it's been banged up an inordinate amount. I'd say maybe it's AU at best. In 20 years, looking like that, no one would think that it's an MS coin and would have a conversation very much like this thread about it. This is a very circular argument. A fingerprint, in the end, can and usually does affect grading. If not on the slab, then in the collector who's buying it's mind. I have a beautiful BU UNC 1956 red Canadian cent, which has a fingerprint on the obverse. Does it still retain mint lustre? Yes. Are there any marks in the field? No. Does it have eye appeal? You betcha, it's gorgeous. But, there's that fingerprint. Who wants a slabbed coin with a massive fingerprint covering QEII's head? not many I would assume. So, will it grade well? I think so, MS-64 easily (IMHO) but it just won't be worth the investment of having it graded because it cannot command the price to justify it.
Therein lies the question one must ask themselves before having a coin graded I think. Personally, fingerprints don't bother me, unless one of the poor minters got their hand stuck in the press or something and the print is minted into the coin (just kidding) but they will bother the serious collector.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Glenzy, after 100 years I don't think it's in mint-state anymore. It's in an atmospheric state. :| To me, mint-state is an invention. Even preserving it involves some kind of handling. It pretty much stops at the mint, but people want to think that their coins are super-pristine so they give it a name.
And no, you don't have to go to graveyards and ask ghosts if your coin is MS, but if you trust your dealer's ability to grade coins beyond your own, then your coin is "mint-state" according to some book.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
SPP- It's technically a ms60, the lowest uncirculated grade. It's coins like this that cause TPG to grade au58 as ms63 (market grading) instead of grading them properly. I would have no problem asking an ms63 price for an au58 coin with enuf eye appeal, but price should NOT determine grade. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
More mud for the waters:
In AU and AG, the A should mean Almost, not About.
Think about it. 6.8, 6.9, 7.1 and 7.2 are all about (approximately) 7.0. Only 6.8 and 6.9 are almost (but not quite) 7.0.
Since there's nothing like AG5, which is as about as G4 as AG3 is, the term is Almost Good.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Years ago, one of the advisories for people who were going to hoard uncirculated rolls was to open each roll of "BU" cents and wipe the filth from each coin with a clean cotton cloth. They pointed out that your "shiny new" coins would quickly turn the cloth black with junk you didn't want to store for decades.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
 Bigfredd, I believe your adviseries from years ago are outdated today! An uncirculated Mintstate business strike coin is the highest graded coin on the market and non finer. The only difference between an Unc coin and a non-Unc coin is the wear! (and nothing else) Glenn  |
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Replies: 30 / Views: 4,959 |
First Page
Posted 02/21/2012 07:49 am
