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Planes Laden With Shipwreck Treasure Land In Spain

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Larryh86GT's Avatar
United States
326 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  09:53 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Larryh86GT to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I wonder if we are going to see a new wave of sea salvaged 8 reales coins on the market?

http://www.buffalonews.com/wire-fee...le740918.ece
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biggfredd's Avatar
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  11:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, they will be offered at super-premium prices, and it won't be until the suckers investors go to sell 10-20 years from now that they'll discover that when 90% of an issue suddenly appears on the market, the price should go down, not up.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spain needs money, I suppose they will make at least a big auction.
All the coins are from the same era it seems - so everyone buying those should be aware there is a bunch of similar ones.
I just hope they won't clean those coins too harshly before selling them ...
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jfransch's Avatar
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1801 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jfransch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From US News and World Report
The Spanish Culture Ministry said Monday the coins are classified as national heritage and as such must stay inside the country and will be displayed in one or more Spanish museums. It ruled out the idea of the treasure being sold to ease Spain's national debt.

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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that's a lot of similar coins to stick in a museum ... :D
Anyway, the value is very low compared that of the debt.
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oih82w8's Avatar
United States
7840 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No pictures? What kind of journalism is this?
Edited by oih82w8
02/25/2012 5:12 pm
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, that's a lot of similar coins to stick in a museum ... :D
Sadly, a lot of musuems display only a fraction of their collections. Redundant coins have minimal research value, and if they're not on display--it's not much different than keeping them as a hoard back in antiquity.
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augsburger's Avatar
Germany
1064 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2012  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add augsburger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why it went to Spain I don't know. They stole this stuff from the Incas, and now the US (which didn't exactly help the natives did they) are now re-stealing the same stuff.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16849 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  12:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
From US News and World Report
The Spanish Culture Ministry said Monday the coins are classified as national heritage and as such must stay inside the country and will be displayed in one or more Spanish museums. It ruled out the idea of the treasure being sold to ease Spain's national debt.

Correct. Spain has no intention of ever selling any of those coins. Collectors will never see any of them, unless they are subsequently stolen from the Spanish museums - in which case their shipwreck provenance will be lost.

The whole point of Spain taking Odyssey to court was not so much to gain the treasure as to scare them, and all the other foreign treasure-hunters like them, away from ever investigating another Spanish shipwreck. Spain doesn't want it's shipwrecks salvaged, certainly not for profit, not by non-Spaniards and not by non-archaeologists.


Quote:
No pictures? What kind of journalism is this?

I doubt the Spanish let journalists anywhere near the planes. If you want pics of the finds, look for the old articles from when the finds were first recovered, like this one from the BBC. Every one of those large white buckets is chock-full of Spanish dollars.


Quote:
Why it went to Spain I don't know. They stole this stuff from the Incas, and now the US (which didn't exactly help the natives did they) are now re-stealing the same stuff.

The Incan Empire was long gone by the time these coins were mined and minted. Debate about the ethics of the Spanish conquest of the Americas is moot; the fact is the invasion happened and the lands formerly part of the Empire were now part of the Spanish Viceroyalty of Peru. These were Spanish coins being sent back to Spain on a Spanish warship when an unlucky shot from a blockading British warship (Spain and Britain were not at war at the time) saw the Spanish ship blow up before it could surrender.

Nevertheless, the Peruvian government did indeed put in a claim for the treasure, but they were thrown out of every US court they tried. The coins simply never belonged to Peru. Which is a shame, from a collector point of view, because the Peruvians probably would have auctioned off the coins to collectors.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Larryh86GT's Avatar
United States
326 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Larryh86GT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
No pictures? What kind of journalism is this?




Planes-Laden-With-Shipwreck-Treasure-Land-In-Spain

Planes-Laden-With-Shipwreck-Treasure-Land-In-Spain
In this undated photo made available by the Spain's Culture Ministry, a member of the Ministry technical crew works with one of the 594,000 coins and other artifacts found in the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes, a Spanish galleon sunk by British warships in the Atlantic while sailing back from South America in 1804, in a warehouse in Tampa, Fla. A 17-ton trove of silver coins recovered from the Spanish galleon was set to be flown Friday Feb. 24, ...


Planes-Laden-With-Shipwreck-Treasure-Land-In-Spain

Armed US Air Force personal guard two Spanish military C-130 aircraft with 17 tons of silver other artifacts wait for departure at MacDill Air Force Base for a flight bound for Spain on Friday, Feb. 24, 2012, in Tampa, Fla. The 594,000 silver coins, and other artifacts, were salvaged from a 19th century Spanish treasure galleon by Tampa-based Odyssey Marine Exploration in 2007 setting off a 5 year-long legal battle in federal district court ...


Planes-Laden-With-Shipwreck-Treasure-Land-In-Spain
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  11:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, they didn't lost time, they slabbed the most expensive coins (mint state it seems - gold don't care about water and sand if stored properly).
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Larryh86GT's Avatar
United States
326 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  1:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Larryh86GT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I noticed that. Why would they have them slabbed if they were not going to be sold? It seems to be an unnecessary expense.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can only guess that Odyssey Marine had coins slabbed?
This story irritates me every time I read it, LOL. The Spanish govt. may have "won" this time, but their lack of cooperation just promotes covert looting, imo.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Covert looting is just what Odyssey did - and they got cought.
From what I understood :
* They first lied about the identity of the ship they were salvaging knowingly...
* And then, did ship the containers to America discretely at night if I remember well.
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DVCollector's Avatar
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh--ok, I stand corrected! There's more to this story than I read from articles.
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MathieuMa's Avatar
France
1591 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MathieuMa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually, you can compare what should have happened here to how the Rooswijk was salvaged.
The Rooswijk was a Dutch East Indiaman ship that sank in 1739 off the coast of England.
It was salvaged and all the coins went back to their origin country.
The wreck was salvaged and documented properly by archeologists (that's another reason why Spain is fighting here) - the UK company which helped got some of the artifacts (chosen by the Netherlands), and the rest is now in museums and being sold.
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