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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,644 |
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Valued Member
Australia
163 Posts |
Here is a quote (by BellyFlorin) from another thread of mine. My reply is off topic to the original thread it was in, and feel the discussion could continue in a new thread (let me know if I shouldn't have done this!) Quote:
I just wish all the negativity towards slabs would get redirected at the sellers/dealers who clean and dip coins and the auction houses that don't describe this crime on the listings , it will benefit us all in the long run.
This above is possibly one of the strongest 'pro' points for buying a 'slabbed' coin (my own opinion) Obviously, we can come up with many other pros and cons, but where are the alternatives ? Could an independant / unbiased (am I dreaming?) company provide a service including, but not limited to : A high resolution photograph of the coin on both sides provided to both seller and buyer, taken by the independant party. A professional opinion on whether the coin : - is genuine - has been altered - has been cleaned - is the one descibed in the transaction. What would not be done by the third party : - grading - valuation - preservation - slabbing The service would be offered in complete confidentiality to protect both parties. The 'service fee' could be paid for by the buyer, or even the seller if they are confident that the coin is legitimate and as described. So.. as a discussion starter, could something like this with all the legalities and kinks ironed out work ? -rob Edited by rbarat
03/08/2012 03:04 am
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
4411 Posts |
I think it would be expensive to do. Also without it being in a slab of some sort its hard to guarantee the integrity of the coins identity. Unfortuantely these dont have serial numbers like notes.
I think it could be done but would be easy to be used to scam buyers by changing the coin.
A way of solving this would be to send it the the 3rd party who then sends it directly to the buyer. Logistically hard passing addresses and payments around. Also questions of liability if coins get lost etc.
Biggest con is for the buyer to on sell they would need to resubmit because it isn't sealed in a slab.
Nice idea but I think it would be hard to implement.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
How about this , simple,sealed and no nasty slab. Would be more cost efficient to do it this way and easier to remove the coin to put in your album   |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
4411 Posts |
Thats looks pretty good trout but alot easier to fake than a hard plastic slab. Maybe some sort of hard slab that can be opened but once you do it is not possible to re seal?
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Valued Member
 Australia
163 Posts |
Quote:
A way of solving this would be to send it the the 3rd party who then sends it directly to the buyer. This was in my original novel of a post which I cut down to prevent people falling asleep. Some sort of Escrow, or buying service. I wonder if disclosure would be an issue if it were done as a buying service. Most ebay sellers / online sellers have a refund policy if the coin isn't as described. (i think its actually part consumer protection whether the seller likes it or not?) Quote:
Maybe some sort of hard slab that can be opened but once you do it is not possible to re seal? Thats easy. Use one of the stickers "warranty void if removed" you find on electronics. I've yet to break one open and put it back together to make it look like it never happened. |
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New Member
Malaysia
4 Posts |
My answer is easy:
If you were to spend $1000 on a coin today, what makes you feel comfortable? A slabbed coin, a dealer who is well known to dip his coin, an auction house that sells cleaned coin?
If you have a coin you think that is worth $1000 to sell today, how likely you think a potential buyer will trust your grading opinion?
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New Member
Malaysia
4 Posts |
Quote:Most ebay sellers / online sellers have a refund policy if the coin isn't as described. (i think its actually part consumer protection whether the seller likes it or not?) The very problem here is, how do you know if the coin is not as described? If the seller says the coin is uncleaned, will you be able to tell to tell it is, in fact, cleaned? I guess perhaps less than 1% of collector knows the answer. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts |
Hi Low  |
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Valued Member
Australia
157 Posts |
Rbarat , I have no answers regarding alternatives to slabs for raw coin market,I'm glad I got you thinking anyway rbarat . I wonder if any ANDA Dealers that visit this forum , have any ideas, especially the raw coin dealers, I think its in their own interest .If any do pop in I for one will be respectful as I hope other will.  ps  hello Low, and PP |
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Valued Member
Australia
465 Posts |
My brain is now thinking outside the cirle (better than square) Twist it around. How about the coin is not the object of scrutiny, but something else is. Like kidnappers have to show photos of the paper of the day with the hostage, Can a photo be taken of the coin which is then included in the background.
...or use cryptography? The seal contains a number (available only once the seal is broken (double layered - with the number under the bottom layer))
...now I think about it, the seal is the key (pun intended). A secure seal (i.e. one that cannot be copied) is the answer. A plastic slab can still be resealed given the appropriate skills. The outside of the seal has two numbers on it, both of which can be used to produce the internal number. Google A3A8 ;-) We can use something along those lines.
...I will give it some more thought. (and not keep touchtyping!)
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I have said this untold times EDUCATION is the BEST alternative to third party grading.Take your time and learn how to judge a coin and pick out the fakes. If a fake coin can be made , Why not a fake slab/whatever. No matter how this is done the shady bunch will adapt and get their dodgy products out there. I do take chances when I buy coins online, sometimes I win sometimes I loose. It's all part of the education process, after a while you get a bit canny with what you buy and what you reject. If there was no thrill in the chase I think I would spend more time fishing |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
Quote:
I have said this untold times EDUCATION is the BEST alternative to third party grading.Take your time and learn how to judge a coin and pick out the fakes.
If a fake coin can be made , Why not a fake slab/whatever. I don't think education is an alternative, both are positives. Knowing how to grade a coin doesn't help you purchase a coin on-line from a fuzzy photo. Likewise knowing that you can confirm the authenticity of Secure Plus slabs on-line doesn't help you when buying a slabbed coin at a coin fair. Secondly, people aren't born educated, if we create an atmosphere of caveat emptor in the coin market expecting buyers to be educated, all we'll really do is restrict newcomers to our hobby. Third party grading enables newcomers to collect pre-decimal coins without fear of buying doctored or overgraded coins and gives them a single grading standard to learn from. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
Quote:
Knowing how to grade a coin doesn't help you purchase a coin on-line from a fuzzy photo If the pic is fuzzy don't walk away RUN Quote:
Secondly, people aren't born educated with the www and this site in particular there is no reason why new collectors cannot savvy up. Quote:
and gives them a single grading standard to learn from.
Don't get me started on this old chestnut  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
541 Posts |
Quote:
If the pic is fuzzy don't walk away RUN
Even clear photos hide imperfections, in particular cleaning hairlines are invisible under uniform light. Even buying in person can be risky, think about how many coin dealers have switched to uniform lighting in their stores - ever questioned why? Unlike TPGs, you're not always assessing coins in ideal situations, no matter how much you know about grading, there are always going to be situations where you cannot accurately assess a coin. Quote:
Secondly, people aren't born educated
with the www and this site in particular there is no reason why new collectors cannot savvy up.
I know it's a depressing thought, but you'll find that most experienced collectors have been cheated on many occasions - anyone who thinks otherwise should probably send their collection to PCGS for a reality check. Every collector should eventually learn to grade, but with TPGs, there's no reason they should be ripped off while they do it. |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,644 |
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Posted 03/08/2012 03:01 am
