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1856 Flying Eagle-Why Do You Think This Coin Was Not Graded

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Indian1's Avatar
United States
3640 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  10:24 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Saw this and was a little stumped.
If it's genuine then it looks o.k. enough for a grade.
?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1856-Genuin...em4160c21620

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amida17's Avatar
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4897 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
84 = holed, plugged
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nod2003's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  10:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't see where there was a hole plugged, even zoomed in.
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amida17's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  10:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Didnt say I could see it either....just what the code means..
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amida17's Avatar
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4897 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  10:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
lotta hairlines in the field behind the right wing though...

The denticles at 11:55 look kinda funky?
Edited by amida17
03/22/2012 10:43 pm
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Indian1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last two numbers in the serial are code #'s ?
News to me. See some die polish lines and a chip and crack
around F of "OF"
If that coin was drilled then plugged then one heck of a fine
job on it. Pretty good eyes on this grader then. Those pics with the zoom come in far better than what a 4X graders loupe
would of seen. Unless because it's a 56 flyer they used a 1000X laser induced electron stereoscope with mach 7 afterburners. If damaged, that woulda shoulda been marked on the slab. If it was mine i'd crack it out and send it to another TPG without any prior info.
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amida17's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the PCGS site:


Quote:
A list of no grade codes is provided below:

No Grade Description Printed Description Holdered
82 Filed Rims Yes Yes
83 Peeling Lamination No No
84 Holed and Plugged Yes Yes
90 Not Genuine No No
91 Questionable Color No Yes
92 Cleaning No Yes
93 Planchet Flaw No Yes
94 Altered Surfaces No Yes
95 Scratch / Rim Dent No Yes
97 Environmental Damage No Yes
98 Damage No Yes
99 PVC Residue No No



http://www.pcgs.com/faq/
Edited by amida17
03/22/2012 11:20 pm
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Indian1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that info. Still pretty confusing though.

1."The format of the numbers printed on the obverse will remain the same. From the left - the coin number followed by a period, the "no grade code" assigned (such as 92 for cleaned), a slash and a certification number."

2.Then: "The reverse of the insert will be modified on Genuine coins to read "GENUINE NOT GRADABLE."

3."The no grade code to the right of the coin number is what should be used to determine the problem that PCGS has identified"

Which sentence/paragraph is correct of #1 and #3 ?

Anyway, good plug and play job on this one.
Wonder how many other key coins slipped through this.
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amida17's Avatar
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 Posted 03/22/2012  11:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I dont claim to understand PCGS... I tolerate them perhaps...personally, I do not own a slabbed coin...
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Indian1's Avatar
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 Posted 03/23/2012  12:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not (anymore) like or use PCGS.
They used to be good yrs. back. NGC was kind of crappy
a while ago but recently are much better then PCGS.
I use them or ANACS depending on the coin.

Still would like some input on this plug job.
Are they now using X-rays etc. on grading ?
Where was the hole to begin with ?
Usually it is around 12:00
Honestly, if you saw this coin in hand raw would
a plug job even occur to you ?
If that price was a tad lower (looks to be in the mid. AU price range) Coin is a close 58 easy 55, I would consider buying it and cracking it out.
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Pinenut's Avatar
United States
462 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2012  12:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pinenut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I see something under the "E" in "STATES". A weird blotch. Cannot detect any corresponding alteration on the reverse, though.
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oih82w8's Avatar
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7840 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2012  01:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oih82w8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indian1 makes some good points. This is screaming FAKE Slab, IMO. PCGS does not use the code GN, I have only seen numerical codes (not saying that I know them all), and the back side of the Insert should have;

The reverse of the insert will be modified on Genuine coins to print "GENUINE NOT GRADABLE".

The Certification Number is good, but I have a feeling that is about all that is worth a hoot on this "coin".

http://www.pcgs.com/grades.html
Edited by oih82w8
03/23/2012 11:49 am
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j_h_s's Avatar
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1934 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2012  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add j_h_s to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not convinced the coin is genuine.


Edited by j_h_s
03/23/2012 07:33 am
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CoinsKelly's Avatar
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 Posted 03/23/2012  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinsKelly to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not sure about the coin but I am not convinced the SLAB is real.
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DVCollector's Avatar
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10045 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2012  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doesn't it say something if the slab cannot furnish proof in a critical situation like this? But, if the slab is fake, calling it "genuine" might be a way to deflect concerns about the coin. If the coin is a fake, it's better than this one discussed recently--a least the legends and date look pretty close to my eyes. But, if I were to split hairs on this one, I would wonder why the tailfeathers end so close to the denticles--was this obverse die (one of 5 total) sunk deeper than the others?

An obvious fake
1856-Flying-Eagle-Why-Do-You-Think-This-Coin-Was-Not-Graded

Why are the tail feathers closer to the denticles--hubbing difference?
1856-Flying-Eagle-Why-Do-You-Think-This-Coin-Was-Not-Graded



Edited by DVCollector
03/23/2012 2:51 pm
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D0ubl3Eagle's Avatar
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5854 Posts
 Posted 03/23/2012  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the coin is genuine and the slab it too. If you look at the 5 in the date, you can see that there is a chip in the ball of the 5 and the back of the 5 bisects the ball. If you look at the "o" in of, the inside is sort of rectangular in shape and not a oval like on other dates. Also, if I remember correctly PCGS did use The GN code on their earlier genuine slabs. I don't know if it has been plugged but I do think it is accurately labeled as a problem coin. The surfaces look off and there is a patch of hairlines in the field above the eagle's tail.
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