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 Replies: 9 / Views: 1,868 |
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Valued Member
Croatia (Locally: Hrvatska)
92 Posts |
Hello friends,
i have some confusion about some countries and coins.
Is this new country or not and why:
1. Congo Democratic republic - Zaire - same president Mobutu...
2. British Honduras - Belize - same Queen Elizabeth for ruler....
3. British east Caribbean territories - East Carribean states
4. Southern Rhodesia - Rhodesia(coins from 1964.)
Thanks for answers.
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1062 Posts |
It's up to you really. They are the same country just with different names, but if you find it makes sense to separate then do so, I wouldn't.
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Moderator
 Australia
16808 Posts |
I personally prefer to sort my coins alphabetically, by the name that appears on the coin. So in all of the examples you've listed above, the answer is "yes", those are separate countries in my coin collection, even though nothing really changed except the name.
I'll also freely admit I don't apply this same standard universally and consistently to all countries, especially when the alphabet used on the coins is not the "normal" Latin alphabet. For example, I file "Siam" under "Thailand" and "Kingdom of the Serbs Croats & Slovenes" gets filed under "Yugoslavia", even though both names are technically incorrect for their time periods.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
Norway
510 Posts |
I have separate listings for such entities. But I use different classification. I have five categories:
1) Present-day countries recognized by the UN.
2) Countries no longer in existence (Zaire fits in here, since it no longer exists under that name. Also Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia)
3) Territories with separate mintage but without country status (Jersey, Greenland, Isle of Man, Falkland Islands etc)
4) Territories no longer in existence (Rhodesia, Zeeland, Bavaria, Basel, etc)
5) Unofficial/private coinage (Lundy, Kurdistan, Gough Island etc)
A name change will thus always prompt a new listing, even if everything else should remain unchanged. This works for me. It's up to you to find your own solution. Good luck :-)
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
The four pairs in the title I would certainly consider separate countries (not that I have coins from any of the eight). A similar example that does appear in my collection is RSFSR versus Soviet Union (though here it might be slightly more than just a name change). I would also consider the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes a separate country from Yugoslavia, but I don't have any coins from the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, and the SFRY is obviously separate from both anyway. Just be sure not to take the separation to absurd levels  like saying 1949 West German coins are from a different country because the country name is stated differently on them (they say "BANK DEUTSCHER LÄNDER" instead of "BUNDESREPUBLIK DEUTSCHLAND"). Now there should be a separation between West German and united German coins, but it is not visible on the coins themselves (which continued with exactly the same design right through 1990). |
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Well, what you call absurd may well be perfectly fine for others. :) For example, I live in the Federal Republic of Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) which was founded in 1949 and still exists today. The fact that the state of Saarland did not join the Federal Republic until 1957 (and did not introduce the DM until 1959) and that the five states that used to be the GDR joined the Federal Republic in 1990 did not affect our coinage. (Apart from the fifth mintmark, that is.)
The "Deutsches Reich" (1871-1949) and the "Deutsche Demokratische Republik" (East G. 1949-1990), however, are different countries from my point of view. Your view may be different of course.
Christian
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Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
5172 Posts |
Quote:
The "Deutsches Reich" (1871-1949) and the "Deutsche Demokratische Republik" (East G. 1949-1990), however, are different countries from my point of view. Your view may be different of course. My view is different in that I separate the "Deutsches Reich" into several different countries probably 1871-1918 is German Empire, 1919-1924? is Weimar Germany and 1924?-1945 is Third Reich (the "1924?" division is incredibly arbitrary (I personally use the Rentenpfennig/Reichspfennig split, some use earlier or later divisions) so some lump them together, but this is the first time I've heard of anyone lumping together the entire 1871-1945 period without putting the modern Germany also in there as well). |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
507 Posts |
My initial thought is to assume a name change implies a different state, unless proven otherwise.
It is also a reason to spend some time on wikipedia reading about the separate countries. That might give you some insight as to whether it is simply a name change or a separate political entity.
So to apply the wikipedia test to two of your examples:
2. British Honduras - Belize - same Queen Elizabeth for ruler....
They are separate countries as Belize declared and attained independence.
4. Southern Rhodesia - Rhodesia(coins from 1964.)
They can be considered the same country with only a name change. This would not include Nyasaland & Rhodesia which can be considered a separate entity. Wikipedia states that 'Rhodesia' considered itself independent while the UK considered it a 'breakaway colony' and continued to refer to it as 'Southern Rhodesia' until the formation of Zimbabwe.
I haven't looked at the other two examples.
Collecting world coins has made me learn a lot about geography and history, and wikipedia is always a helpful resource.
-wheatiefan
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Pillar of the Community
Germany
1238 Posts |
Quote:
this is the first time I've heard of anyone lumping together the entire 1871-1945 period without putting the modern Germany also in there as well Umm, have a look at the country names that you see on the coins. There was a country named "Deutsches Reich" which existed from 1871 until 1949 - in different "shapes" (Monarchy, Weimar republic, Nazi regime, Allied occupation/administration) but always with that very name. In 1949 the Federal Republic of Germany (Bundesrepublik Deutschland, "West Germany") and the German Democratic Republic (Deutsche Demokratische Republik, "East Germany") were founded. Today the GDR states (and also Saarland) are parts of the Federal Republic. And when I say that I collect coins from my country, that refers to this Federal Republic of Germany, not to medieval Germany or the Deutsches Reich or the GDR. Absurd? I don't quite think so. As for Congo/Zaire, since the country went back to its previous name (basically without territorial changes), I would combine the two in a collection. Cases like Russia and the Soviet Union, or Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia and their successors, are more difficult. :) Christian Edited by chrisild
05/31/2012 08:26 am
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New Member
South Africa
27 Posts |
Southern Rhodesia (coins 1932 to 1953), Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland (3) together were a self governing British colony from 1953 to 1963 and the three were know as "Rhodesia & Nyasaland" for which you will find coins from 1953 to 1963, Northern Rhodesia then became Zambia and Nyasaland became Malawi and Southern Rhodesia just became Rhodesia. Malawi and Zambia are still called that but in 1980 Rhodesia became Zimbabwe (under Mugabe's rule). I keep my coins separated in Southern Rhodesia, Rhodesia, Zimbabwe, Rhodesia & Nyasaland. Complicated but I hope this sheds some light on the various coins/countries. BTW, Southern Rhodesia coins have better values out of the four countries.
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Replies: 9 / Views: 1,868 |
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Posted 05/24/2012 9:58 pm
