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 Replies: 27 / Views: 5,305 |
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Valued Member
 United States
117 Posts |
Quote:
Granted we all know PCGS can't grade circulated Canadian coins. They are 1, 2 or 3 grades too high.
Well I can't really comment on that, since I haven't seen that many PCGS graded circulated Canada coins. I will say that the grading standards for circulated Canadian coins are well established and simple enough to understand that even a budding young numismatist could easily grade coins with a high degree of accuracy. |
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Valued Member
United States
117 Posts |
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I don't see what difference it makes, folks who buy graded coins tend to factor in the grading company, when deciding to purchase a coin. Do you really think that a US graded MS-68 is any better than a ICCS/CCCS graded MS-66? All I really see is a difference of opinion, and when we are talking about upper-end mint state Canadian coins (pre-Elizabeth), it is the coin that catches the eyes of potential buyers, not the holder. Unfortunately not all buyers are as perspicacious as you seem to think. They go by the grade assigned by a TPG as if it was carved in stone. |
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Moderator
 Canada
10463 Posts |
Nobody seems to bat an eye, when buying an undergraded coin or an unattributed coin from a coin dealer. Caveat venditor seems to be accepted in our hobby. I would argue that those who decided to collect mint state coins, should really learn how to grade, and learn to judge the coin for themselves, then decide if they want to buy it or not - Caveat emptor.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Valued Member
Canada
220 Posts |
Now if ICCS would stop using the world's ugliest TPG holder, and develop a web presence already!!  |
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Valued Member
United States
117 Posts |
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I would argue that those who decided to collect mint state coins, should really learn how to grade, and learn to judge the coin for themselves, then decide if they want to buy it or not - Caveat emptor. I think that pretty much goes without saying. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
629 Posts |
My experience is that all of the grading companies are guilty of overgrading coins, not all the time but it does happen. I have seen a relaxing to the rules of what is considered VF or XF. It seems to me that the companies are not only looking for the characteristics that make them these grade they also take into account whether the date is one that is struck well or poorly.
I do like NGC in that they will encapsulate the coin and give it "details" if the coin has been cleaned or altered in some other way. I have not seen this type of designation given for ICCS - they will assign a grade and also say it's cleaned. In my mind that gives it an honest opinion.
But honestly, isn't a cleaned coin worth less than the normal non cleaned coin? I have also found that ICCS seems to pay particular attention to a coin's luster and that if it is sparkling clean then it must be MS.
I am a Canadian who is now an American Citizen, being naturalized at an early age. I do love Canadian coins and banknotes and enjoy my collection very much! Canadians stand up for ICCS because it is a Canadian company. I send my coins to NGC only because it's in the USA (also it's less expensive than PCGS). I do not want to take a chance in sending my valuable coins to ICCS where I have heard horror stories of lost packages and extended delivery times with your post office. Perhaps that is why Canadian send their coins to ICCS/CCCS as they feel the same way?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
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I have also found that ICCS seems to pay particular attention to a coin's luster and that if it is sparkling clean then it must be MS.
It seems to me the prevailing attitude is exactly the opposite, in that ICCS grades on technical factors alone, and the eye appeal and luster are not a factor in their MS gradings. The exception being copper coins, which people complain ICCS tend to grade lower if original luster is degraded (e.g. few MS-65 brown/lusterous brown/red-brown) There are plenty examples of high grade, ugly looking, coins in ICCS flips. |
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New Member
Brunei Darussalam
9 Posts |
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dialog_gvf = ''It seems to me the prevailing attitude is exactly the opposite, in that ICCS grades on technical factors alone, and the eye appeal and luster are not a factor in their MS gradings. The exception being copper coins, which people complain ICCS tend to grade lower if original luster is degraded (e.g. few MS-65 brown/lusterous brown/red-brown)
There are plenty examples of high grade, ugly looking, coins in ICCS flips''
==================================== Yes, true. If you look carefully, you see EF coins and tokens graded AU 55 by NGC. Something barely an Unc is MS 64. What's the point? Some people get the grade they want somehow, with some of these outfits. With the exponential increase in stuff being graded the competition has resulted in things being overgraded. As if a holder had anything to do with it. Standards are slipping and some graders, especially for tokens, shouldn't be grading them. I guess just keep reminding people, buy the coin, not the holder. Myself, I see ICCS very consistent and as to fakes, the Chinese and some others are faking all holders. The art of self delusion - you know it is a VF but it is in an EF holder...How is that a win? Only one way, the next owner could be shafted if not performing their own due diligence...That's the sad bit... I reckon keeping standards high is the way to go... |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
10743 Posts |
Quote:Now if ICCS would stop using the world's ugliest TPG holder, and develop a web presence already!!  At least develop a WEB presence, I don't know how much more business ICCS would have if you could contact them via web.  Edited by SHAFTA9a
07/02/2012 4:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
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Yes, true. If you look carefully, you see EF coins and tokens graded AU 55 by NGC. Something barely an Unc is MS 64. What's the point? Some people get the grade they want somehow, with some of these outfits.
There is a saying: Never attribute to malice what can be sufficiently explained by stupidity. None of the American TPG have show sufficient competence in grading circulated Canadian/Newfoundland coins, to be trusted. Their MS scales differ from ICCS, so that has to be taken into account for MS grades. ICCS has very few MS-68 business strikes. It's a column in their population report that is mostly 0. And, I think it represents the maximum grade they would ever allow for a business strike. So, MS-69 is impossible. The US TPG do provide MS-68 and even MS-69 rankings for business strikes, so their scale is stretched out, making the MS-65/MS-66 especially problematic compared to ICCS. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
I guess different TPGs are like currencies. They each have their own "values", reputation, metric, volume, and territory.
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New Member
Brunei Darussalam
9 Posts |
''None of the American TPG have show sufficient competence in grading circulated Canadian/Newfoundland coins, to be trusted. Their MS scales differ from ICCS, so that has to be taken into account for MS grades.'' =========================================== Actually PCGS generally does a better job than ICCS with higher end decimal issues..More than one dealer will agree with that..What the coin shows is what is important, not 'opinions', shaded by people, skilled or not... There is another saying - I'll leave that for another time |
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Replies: 27 / Views: 5,305 |
First Page
Posted 06/12/2012 4:23 pm
