ICCS - Too Conservative?

Same for me Geez, my 500+ I.C.C.S coins prove 90 % to be undergraded, however, no complaint's here either. As far as E-bay is concerned, "any" non U.S. T.P.G. is not recognized thanks to the American Numismatic Association.

Glenn

Yeah, what a stupid rule. They apply the rule to the seller's location, NOT the site. So I can list 100 ICCS coins on ebay.com and not be able to call them certified, but a Canadian can list 100 ICCS coins on ebay.com and call them certified all day long. Yeah, that's fair. They show up in the searches right next to mine. Either the coin is certified or not, doesn't matter if the Pope is selling it.

Over the years I have had numerous PCI & SEGS certified coins sent to ANACS (in the original holders) and over 90% received the same cross over grade, the others would go up or down a point, such as a PCI MS65-RED receive a MS-64 RED from ANACS & A MS-64-RED from PCI receive a MS-65-RED... Yet, most people give a negative opinion of PCI and SEGS Certified Coins as they are looking at the slab and not the coin itself...

I also believe the CAC stickers on NGC & PCGS is a crock (my opinion) as less then half of the coins submitted to them receive their little sticker (their words, not mine)...

I take this as over half the PCGS & NGC holdered coins can be considered overgraded, or not worth the stated catalog value if it fails the CAC test... Maybe the TPG Services should add a + (plus) or - (minus) on Mint State Coins, as an example a MS66- Coin would be a low end grade (equal to say a MS65+), a MS66 (no _ or +) a solid midgrade and a MS66+ a top grade (just shy of receiving a 67 grade)...

This is just my opinion only, but what do the members of this forum think of a top tier service such as PCGS or NGC offer a Regrade Service where they would accept ALL tamper resistant 3rd party certified coins, leave the coins in the original holder, and place a small sticker with their grade imprinted on the sticker... If the coin is a "problem" coin, instead of a number grade, they can label it as "cleaned" or whatever the problem is... The submitter would have to agree with the outcome if they wanted to use their service...

I myself, would have zero problem of sending a old ACG, PCI or even ANACS certified coins returned with a grade that equals a top holder grade...
Example; I send a ACG toned Bust Half Dollar graded AU-55 on the holder, and have it returned with a sticker grade of VF30 or EF40, and know the true value of the ACG holdered coin would be equal to a PCGS or NGC price on the stickered grade...

On the plus side, turn around time would not take long as the coins would remain in their original holders, and they could even offer a holder crossover serial number service so those that use this option can verify the "NEW" grades when listing on ebay, etc. (I would find no reason for ebay not to accept this type of listing as the coin was verified by one of their TPGS)...

The only thing I'm not sure of (and the lawyers would come out of the woodwork) is if it is illegal to place a sticker on a different companies holder...

I don't think they've ever graded anything PL-70, SP-70, or PF-70, either.

However you decide to explain it, the rule is BS. I can do a search on ebay.com and have 2 identical coins listed with identical titles with "ICCS" and a numerical grade in the title, The only difference being that one seller is in Canada and one is in the US. If I report them both as violating the ebay US rule, only the US seller will get their listing removed, NOT the Canadian seller.

Canadian sellers are allowed to have listings on the ebay US site that blatantly break the ebay US rules, but US sellers can't. It's a huge advantage "outsiders" are allowed to have that "insiders" aren't. Complete BS. So tell me again how the rule is enforced? Site or location?

As a member of both the RCNA and the ANA, I have noticed that the grading standards employed in Canada are much more stringent than here in the USA.
As far as I can determine from the courses I took, the RCNA believes it is virtually impossible for a circulation strike to be flawless (MS70), whereas MS70 grades are routinely given by the top 2 USA TPGs (PCGS/NGC).
So, in terms of Canadian grading standards, ICCS coins are more-or-less accurately graded. Using US standards they appear undergraded.

I wouldn't say ICCS is more strict the PCGS.

The difference lies in their philosophy of grading.

A couple of points....

For high MS grades, ICCS puts more emphasis on the fields and PCGS looks more at the high points of the coin.

Also, ICCS's ms65 is PCGS's ms66. This doesn't mean ICCS is more strict, it's just that through the years PCGS graded 'higher' on the scale.

Look at their respective pop reports and you'll see a correlation of coins graded that match with ICCS ms64,65, 66 to PCGS's ms65,66,67.

Granted we all know PCGS can't grade circulated Canadian coins. They are 1, 2 or 3 grades too high.

I don't see what difference it makes, folks who buy graded coins tend to factor in the grading company, when deciding to purchase a coin. Do you really think that a US graded MS-68 is any better than a ICCS/CCCS graded MS-66? All I really see is a difference of opinion, and when we are talking about upper-end mint state Canadian coins (pre-Elizabeth), it is the coin that catches the eyes of potential buyers, not the holder.