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 Replies: 39 / Views: 6,714 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
 completely! But... Quote:
So they make their best guess and hope it flies Isn't that what everyone does....including you and I as well as any TPG? Edited by amida17
06/12/2012 11:39 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36826 Posts |
numismo, you are so correct on that one. Standards continue to go down at the TPG's. Can't believe what I see as a slabbed MS-66 Morgan now that use to only go MS-64 or MS-65 because of the marks in the field. Seems like over the past ten years or so, standards have changed at least one full grade to the down side. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36826 Posts |
amida17, I guess you are right, we all just give it our best guess. But I'm hoping those of us that have been around coins for a long time can do a better job at it. It takes time and handling many coins of the same type to really learn how to grade.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4897 Posts |
Absolutely! Each series is its own thing and knowing the series you are grading is very important. Unfortunately alot of people tend to try and simplifying grading standards to cover any coin....it is hard to know the knowledge and experience of the seller so as a buyer education is key...
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
With the Sheldon scale the numbers are attached to a grade to eliminate adjectival additions to the basic grade. This was to eliminate variable subjectivity that can happen with an adjective qualification to the grade.
Sorry about the voluminous wording.
Can't avoid being
"Intoxicated with the exuberance of my own verbosity" (Benjamin Disraeli taking a swipe at William Ewart Gladstone in the British House of Commons circa 150 years ago).
I was lucky: the spell checker had no trouble with that one! I AM surprised!
Edited by sel_69l
06/12/2012 12:38 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
Quote:
If there is any one thing I've learned, is that a lot of dealers can't grade a coin, or recognize a cleaned/whizzed/dipped coin to save their lives.
Your wrong there. Most do know exactly what they have. The way they look at this is if you don't know it's been cleaned, dipped, etc., so much better for them. Why should a dealer tell you it's been cleaned? He has this coin and it is cleaned. It has a price on it of $100. Now if he also added it's been cleaned, he would know he now has to lower the price. Why would he do that? Someone that doesn't know, might just buy it for that $100. And as to grading, if they can get away with a AU-50 instead of a EF-40, just more money for them. Most dealers at coin shows I've met do know grading and what has been cleaned. But why should they tell anyone? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
594 Posts |
Quote:
But why should they tell anyone? Honesty. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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Honesty. Try to think of what you would do if you were a dealer at a coin show. Oh so many say I'd do the right thing. Just can't find those in real life. A dealer of coins is normally there to make money, not friends. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
To get back to the original questions, here is my spin on the system.
Coins fall into these grades, based on how much wear a coins has, or how well it was struck.
Poor (P 1)
Fair (FA 2)
About Good (AG 3)
Good (G 4 or G 6)
Very Good (VG 8 or VG 10)
Fine (F 12 or F 15)
Very Fine (VF 20, VF 25, VF 30 or VF 35)
Extra Fine (XF 40 or XF 45) some will use EF in place of XF
Almost Uncirculated (AU 50, AU 53, AU 55 or AU 58)
Mint State grades MS 60 through MS 70
Brilliant Uncirculated (BU can be MS 60, MS 61 or MS 62)
Choice Uncirculated (CH BU can be MS 63 or MS 64)
Gem Uncirculated (Gem BU can be MS 65 or higher)
The numbers, 1 through 70, are used as a scale so that collectors can further break down each grade. For example you could have a coin that is better than a F-12 but not good enough to make a VF-20. That coin might be graded a F-15.
These numbers help with putting a value on each coin.
This is how I see the system works, the experts might have a more detailed explanation or see if I made any errors in mine.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
927 Posts |
I believe that most if not all of the dealers that I have met know how to grade coins. They would not be in the business very long if they did not. That being said, grading is still very subjective. It is one person's opinion, and their opinion of a grade may be somewhat different from yours. But this is part of what makes coin collecting so fun. Not all dealers overgrade their coins. Some are actually very conservative and you can pick up a great deal if you have a good eye and you know how to grade accurately. I guess this is why I have always preferred raw coins over slabbed ones. However, I will look at slabbed coins at a show so I can compare grades (someone else's opinion) for coins in the same series as I am looking for.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
GR58: Same thing is noted on page 9 in the Red Book. And with a larger explanation. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36826 Posts |
Too many steps in the VF grade. A VF-20 doesn't look any different than a F-15 to me, especially when looking at Buffalo nickels. A little off topic but it just bugs me. I remember when dealers use to call real nice AU's (AU-58) Commercial Unc's. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2120 Posts |
Quote:
You're wrong there. Most do know exactly what they have. Well, I did say 'a lot', not most.  Also, it may be worth pointing out that dealers from one area have a different culture than dealers from another. Much like Americans from different states/regions. So it may be perfectly normal for dealers in your area to be dishonest and know they are lying to their customers. That might be part of your dealer culture. But for a lot dealers in my area, they aren't big on knowing how to grade very accurately, every series they deal in. Nor how to recognize a non original surface coin. However, there are many that can and do, and those dealers are usually more successful than the aforementioned. Quote:
A dealer of coins is normally there to make money, not friends. Why not both? Be honest and friendly and you will. With that said, back to the topic. Quote:
Brilliant Uncirculated (BU can be MS 60, MS 61 or MS 62)
Choice Uncirculated (CH BU can be MS 63 or MS 64)
Gem Uncirculated (Gem BU can be MS 65 or higher)
This is a good explanation of the approximation separation for MS grades, similar to lower letter grades. The big thing to note here I think is, GemBU should mean an MS65 or higher. andoyan62, Does this help clear it all up? If not, how can we help further. As 'just carl' suggested, this info is present in the ' Red Book', but I can understand if you don't have one, and don't want to buy one. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
It's not necessary to purchase a Red Book for that info. For a really good explanation, just go to Google. Type in Coin Grading and you would find: What Is The Sheldon Scale Of Coin Grading - Coins - About.com Or use the Glossary at the left. Lots of places where this is all explained. Quote:
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A dealer of coins is normally there to make money, not friends.
Why not both? Be honest and friendly and you will.
In most instances serves no purpose. At many coin shows dealers come from sometimes great distances. Some will never come back to that show. Some may but infrequent. Making a freind of someone you may never see again to most dalers is useless. The real problem with any grading system is the difficulty attempting to differentiating from one grade to the next. You could take a AU-55 to one dealer and find it's AU-53 then to the next one and it is now AU-50. Even the so called professionals can't make up their minds. If you read enough posts here, you see how many take a coin from a TPGS slab, send to a different one, get a different grade. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts |
Quote:GR58: Same thing is noted on page 9 in the Red Book. And with a larger explanation. Carl I was just trying to give a very basic explanation of how the grading system work, I posted it with out looking it up, so I was not sure if I had all the information correct. Yes most grading books and online grading site will give more detailed information. Yes there is much more to learn than just the grades and the number scale. Like how the scale was developed by Sheldon. Also how each coin series will have different criteria to determine how a particular coin will fall into each grade. Let's not forget market grading vs technical grading. I will go back and read page nine just in case I missed something |
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Replies: 39 / Views: 6,714 |
First Page
Posted 06/12/2012 11:38 am
