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 Replies: 24 / Views: 10,801 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
$50.00 Canadian Gold Maple Leaf
I see two different fineness numbers on these.
.999 and .9999 .999 is 22K /9999 is 24K
Which is correct ?
Also interesting is that they sell at certain places
for below spot price of .999 never mind .9999 if that is the actual fineness.
Sounds like a pretty good deal compared to all the other gold 1 oz. coins.
Thanks
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Valued Member
Ireland
131 Posts |
Indian1,
.999 is not 22k they are both 24k, 22k is .9167 fineness.
I'm no expert on maples but I have a few fractionals, all designated .9999, and the oldest of those is 1986.
edit: a quick check on Wiki shows maples as being .999 fineness for the years 1979-1982 and .9999 from then on. I'm sure someone on here better versed in these coins will be able to verify whether that is indeed so.
Norm
Edited by Spikey Norman
07/04/2012 10:47 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
there are also a few .99999 maple leafs as well. Doesn't really matter on the fineness as its 24k but some people like to collect them
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Valued Member
291 Posts |
I've had dealers pay more for the .9999 and .99999 than for the .999. Anybody else experience that?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
The refining process is quite expensive and involves lots of chemicals, so it's only natural for the .9999 and .99999 to be more expensive. And only Canada can boast such a high purity...for now...
FYI gold is measured in karats in 24 parts. So divide the karats by 24 and you get the purity in a decimal format.
Your question kind of reminded me of the math problem that goes .33..+.33..+.33..=1.0
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3640 Posts |
O.K. Thanks for the info. The Maple leaf is 24K then.
Still out on the .999 and .9999 as being the same though.
The spot price of gold is actually based on 22K. .999 silver rounds actually have some copper/zinc. in them for extra hardness to produce them as coins but are marked as .999
Did not realize that the fineness numbers on gold and silver
were different.
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Valued Member
291 Posts |
Quote:
The spot price of gold is actually based on 22K. .999 silver rounds actually have some copper/zinc. in them for extra hardness to produce them as coins but are marked as .999
Did not realize that the fineness numbers on gold and silver
were different. Fineness is fineness irrespective of the metal. Spot price of gold is for 1 ounce net weight of pure gold. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
598 Posts |
Quote:
O.K. Thanks for the info. The Maple leaf is 24K then.
Still out on the .999 and .9999 as being the same though.
The spot price of gold is actually based on 22K. .999 silver rounds actually have some copper/zinc. in them for extra hardness to produce them as coins but are marked as .999
Did not realize that the fineness numbers on gold and silver
were different.
Indian1 Okay... a while ago, the best processes to refine gold could only do so to one part in a thousand. In other words, if you had a thousand granules of sugar, one of them would be a flyspeck and you would have 999/1000 pure sugar... your sugar would be .999 fine. Now, with modern technology being what it is, we can refine to .9999 fine... if sugar, only one flyspeck in ten thousand. Or even .99999 fine... one flyspeck in one hundred thousand. Back to gold... ALL of these designations .999 , .9999 , .99999 refer to pure gold. 24 karat pure, or 24 parts out of 24 parts. Typically, you will never see 23 47/48ths (<read twenty three and fourty seven fourty eigths) or some such other bizarre fraction karat gold... the 24 karat deignation being old and entrenched as pure gold. So, refining gold to purer and purer specs is a technology where the method to measure/quantify the purity must also keep pace with refining. Spot gold price IS based on pure gold... 24 karat... .999 fine or better... better being more nines purity. When we are getting to all these nines fine, some infitesimal, real tiny amount of dirt is in the gold... but the reality is, that for any purpose it is considered pure gold... 24kt. Same for silver... .999 fine would only allow for one one thousandth of some impurity... impurity, not a hardener. One one thousanth of anything would not alloy as a hardener. Fineness for gold and silver is quantitatively the same for both gold and silver. So, one troy ounce of .999 fine silver will weigh one troy ounce. One troy ounce of gold(or silver) at .999, .9999,or .99999 fine will weigh one troy ounce. 22kt gold is 22 parts out of 24 parts pure gold, or 22 divided by 24 to get the ratio of gold by weight... which is .917 fine... 91.7% pure, so multiply the total weight by 91.7 to get the pure gold weight of a 22kt gold item. >>> edited >>>... to correct ramblings, spelling, ramblings... did I say ramblings  Edited by IBGolden
07/05/2012 8:04 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
I just wrote out my final reply and then hit "Post New Reply"
Oh well, was not logged in. Site does not save text. I'll have to post in another forum on bullion as well as U.S. .9999
mint coins compared to .999 also about bullion bars not being made out of 24K+ gold because it is too soft to handle etc.
Thanks all for your input.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
24K = archaic way to denote/guarantee gold content prior to modern ability to refine essentially pure gold .999 .9999 or .99999 matters very little to value. Mintage and condition dictates the value of GML much Much more. The rest falls on spot value. 1oz of gold = 1oz of gold, it doesn't matter if that 1oz gold is found in 2oz of 50% (14K) or 1oz of .9999 gold. Unless, ofcourse your 14K gold is 50% gold and 50 Platinum :) Gold Maple Leafs were first minted in 1979, in .999 purity. It was not until 1982 that the RCM started to produce GML in .9999 purity |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
598 Posts |
Quote:
... 1oz gold is found in 2oz of 50% (14K) or 1oz of .9999 gold. Unless, ofcourse your 14K gold is 50% gold and 50 Platinum...
poboxw Actually 14kt gold is more than 50% gold... 14 over 24 gives you .583 fine, but it is typically denoted .585 fine. 12kt would be more accurately 50% gold... 12 over 24. Quote:
... bullion bars not being made out of 24K+ gold because it is too soft to handle etc....
Indian1 Bullion bars ARE made out of 24kt gold... they are .999 fine or better. They ARE soft, and they are handled. I know my above post was lengthly, but if you give it a minute to dwell, it should clarify your concerns over 24kt and .999whatever purity. And gold bullion is soft and pure gold... it is NOT alloyed to harden it. It's just that no one can call gold 100% pure, because some extravagant and expensive device is out there that can detect the most miniscule impurity. For that matter, anything on earth would be difficult to prove as pure... toxins in parts ber billion (ppb) can be detected in water samples. Bullion at .999 fine is only parts per thousand. That's all I got...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2408 Posts |
I didn't think quality or mintage would have a great impact on bullion. Proof collector coins maybe, or silver bullion maybe more? [slightly off topic] Speaking of gold bullion, I just looked at the current auctions on ebay -- $50 1oz (spot dropped by $24 is at $1583 today http://www.monex.com/liveprices).1980 $1595 1984 $1696 ! 1984 $1625 1997 $1609 Buyer: Average sale price = $1631 (auctions still on for a few more hours). Average shipping = $15 Out of pocket = $1646 Seller: Estimated ebay fees @9% = $150 Estimated PayPal fees @2.9% = $48 Take home = $1433 More fees if using ebay shipping, possible insertion fees, extra pictures, bold, and all the other gimmicks. Why sell bullion on ebay? here : http://bullion.nwtmint.com/gold_mapleleaf.phpBuyer pays $1644.00 Seller gets $1576.00 With the ridiculous buyer protection and PayPal chargebacks selling on ebay makes no sense to me. Buyers can get a fair deal on Auction Style. So no wonder there are so few of them. I am not an expert in bullion/gold -- did I miss anything? Maybe my calculations are wrong? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3640 Posts |
I think that some info that I got many, many years ago just stuck with me all these years. So I accepted it as set in stone. Every thing makes sense that was mentioned here. I just looked up the differences on the gold american eagles and the gold buffalo's. The buff's are always described as .9999 and the eagles are sometimes described as .999 when in fact they are 22K. You can see the possible confusion right there. And the mis-info I had in my mind all these years about the bullion bars (i.e.: fort knox type) was that indeed an alloy was added to slightly harden them for handling etc.,etc.,etc. So now I know :) As far as the maple leafs it sounds like a better deal anyway. Don't get me wrong, I'm an American and I love their coins but I am also of French Canadian heritage and I like the Maple Leafs too. If it's just for the gold then bars are the way to go. Wish I could remember years back where I saw or read about the bullion bars and their purity etc. If I do, I will track down the authors etc. and   Film at 11:00 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
598 Posts |
Yeah! You got it. The .999 or better coins/bars/bullion also have a tax/duty/tarriff advantage if importing gold/silver... depending on where you live, these charges can be significantly lower on pure gold/silver, than on alloyed gold/silver. I don't run the world(yet), but pure gold and silver is not taxed as much as alloyed gold and silver. The Buffalo was meant to compete with the Maple Leaf, to take advantage of this lower tax rate... then of course other countries have their three nines or better competing gold coins/bullion. Prior, most gold bullion coins were indeed 22kt... Krugerrand, Eagles, et al. Krugerrands alloyed with copper to harden them; they did expect to circulate somewhat. Eagles with silver/copper (< can't find my ref to verify rite now), but now gold is not expected to circulate and as pure as pure need be is... bullion.  Edited by IBGolden
07/06/2012 7:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
567 Posts |
Just don't mix-up the Toronto Maple Leafs with the Mint's Maple Leafs. :)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1502 Posts |
@IBGolden: I stand corrected 12K = 50% @Canadian_coins: you are absolutely right. Makes no sense selling gold bullion on ebay. Where seller can look to at least break even with spot is with the rarer or semi-numismatic GMLs straddling the line between commemorative and bullion. These include fractional sets, hologram, colorized, privy marked, and .99999 carded GMLs. I've had good luck selling a few 1989 PF GMLs for $300-400 over spot |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 10,801 |
Posted 07/04/2012 2:38 pm
