Coin Community Family of Web Sites Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors
Shop for APMEX Bullion on eBay!300,000 items to help build your collection! Join Thousands of Coin, Bullion, & Money Collectors Coin, Banknote and Medal Collectors's Online Mall Specializing in Modern Numismatics Vancouvers #1 Coin and Paper Money Dealer Royal Canadian Mint products, Canadian, Polish, American, and world coins and banknotes.








Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

NCLT A Lesson Learned From Canada

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 4,153Next Topic
Page: of 2
Moderator
Learn More...
rggoodie's Avatar
United States
23507 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  08:32 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add rggoodie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers

Quote:
Coin collector learns the difference between legal tender and spending money the hard way

Published on Thursday July 05, 2012

The Royal Canadian Mint's $20 silver Queen's Diamond Jubilee commemorative coin is legal tender, but you can't always use it as cash.

Morgan Campbell
Business Reporter

What's the difference between legal tender and spending money?

A big headache for a Scarborough man who learned the hard way that banks aren't obligated to honour collector's coins at face value, even if they come from the Royal Canadian Mint.

Two months ago 32-year-old Orest Fokine took advantage of a deal on a new silver coin the mint had stamped to commemorate Queen Elizabeth's Diamond Jubilee.

The coin retails for $25, but Fokine was able to buy more than 30 of them at their $20 face value.

On Tuesday he needed money quickly, and with no cash at hand he headed to a CIBC branch near Kingston Rd. and Midland Rd. with one of his silver coins, hoping to exchange it for cash or deposit it into his account.

But the teller there told him he could do neither, rejecting Fokine's silver coin.

When he appealed to the manager he was again told he couldn't exchange the coin for cash.

When he tried a nearby Royal Bank and Bank of Montreal branches and heard the same answer, he got steamed. He had bought the coin legitimately and had been assured it was legal tender, so he couldn't figure out why the banks wouldn't recognize his coin as real money.

"This is the most ridiculous explanation I've ever heard in my life," Fokine says. "Nothing in the description of this coin states it's not currency."

So who is right, the customer with the legal tender coin or the banks who kept rejecting it?

They're both correct, says Royal Canadian Mint Alex Reeves.

He explains all coins produced by the mint are legal tender -- meaning they can be exchanged for goods or services at face value -- but only circulating legal tender can be readily spent and traded at business and banks.

Non-circulating legal tender refers to items like Fokine's silver coins and designated collectibles. Reeves says business can accept the money at face value if they choose, but they're also free to reject it.

"There's nothing forcing a bank or a business to accept (the coin)," Reeves says. "If someone offers me a gold Maple Leaf (coin) for $50 face value I'd be crazy not to take it, but it's still a coin that's not destined for circulation."

Reeves points out banks all have procedures by which customers can convert collectible coins to cash but acknowledges staff aren't always aware of them. In that case he suggests having the branch manager call the Mint so they can work through the conversion process.

Managers at the RBC branch Fokine visited have arranged to meet with him to discuss the coin. And by Wednesday afternoon Fokine says CIBC had offered to convert the coin to cash, but only after keeping it on hold for six months.

But on Tuesday Fokine wasn't aware of those avenues, or that the Mint could have interevened. Out of options, he called a friend and borrowed some cash.
rggoodie
aka Richard
"catch em doing something right"
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  08:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yup, another example of the RCM being idiots and telling untruths in advertising etc.
Valued Member
TJB17's Avatar
United States
492 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  09:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TJB17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why not just turn around to the people in line and say "Anyone want a $20 silver Queen's Diamond Jubilee commemorative coin for face value?" I'm sure there would be at least one person in line that knew what it was and would readily accept that action.

So are there similar rules here in the US? Does this mean that we can't spend 2012 and later Presidential dollars or 2002 and later halves?
Moderator
Learn More...
Sap's Avatar
Australia
16826 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  09:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I said in the thread on this topic in the Canadian subforum, the problem seems to me to be one the Mint could have avoided, by getting all the major banks on board and having them promise to accept them for full face value in unlimited quantity, before launching the scheme.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Bedrock of the Community
sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21786 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  10:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Begs the question:
"When is an NCLT not an NCLT?"
Moderator
Learn More...
jbuck's Avatar
United States
188213 Posts
Pillar of the Community
Libertad's Avatar
Canada
3692 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  1:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Libertad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So how can you get it to be legal tender if it's not allowed to circulate? An oxymoron, right there. So....I can only circulate it between me, myself, and I. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, there, RCM. Why would they call something NCLT?!!? Why don't they just sell play money, as well, seeing that it's "worth"less?
Rest in Peace
Parklane64's Avatar
United States
2668 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Parklane64 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
O Canada!
Pillar of the Community
IBGolden's Avatar
Canada
598 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  6:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
... or just stop putting a denomination on it


Quote:
... Why don't they just sell play money, as well, seeing that it's "worth"less?...
Libertad


I, I , I'm almost speechless... you know Canada has plastic money now (polymer notes). And that the RCM has dropped our cent/penny because it costs more than a cent to produce... and that our other circulating coins are now made out of plated steel instead of pure nickel for the same cost effectiveness reason... and silver is long gone in the 60s of course. When will we have plastic coins. I think the new igeneration will be ready for that.

Talk about debasement. Sure I've bought a few NCLT RCM pieces that I've liked... in the aftermarket when premiums plummet. But lately, the flood of NCLT has been a great windfall for the RCM. I think it's hurting the seasoned collector, but the RCM is hoping it's adding new collectors.

I guess that the RCM finally confirming that their NCLT ain't legal tender at all... I mean confirming it in a written statement... confirming something many collectors may have suspected but not questioned, because they are collectors not spenders. It just puts me off... in hard times, just sayin' is all, in hard times that NCLT isn't money at all... a real let down
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I know the dollar and dump series has been demonetized,
I would imagine that is because the dump had a face value of 25 cents and is the only coin that has had this face value in Australia.
I would imagine that all the 1 and 2 cent silver proof coins are demonetized as well.
This really is a moot question, Who on earth would want to cash a silver $5 coin with 36g of silver in for $5 anyway.
If anyone wants to do this, Then bugger the banks , My door will always be open if you want to cash them in
Pillar of the Community
IBGolden's Avatar
Canada
598 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  8:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
^^^ Well, the point that got Canadian collectors all riled up was that bullion, as you have mentioned, typically had a lower face value than bullion value...

The sticking point is that this newer "$20 for $20" silver coin series has a face value of (you guessed it) $20, but is only one quarter of an ounce of fine silver...one quarter of an ounce of fine silver... $7 worth.

Things are upside down with the series, so... if de-monetized, worth a lot less than face. Sure, you get into the discussion of collectable versus NCLT versus the whole legal tender thing. And this RCM announcement... it's all, just, not good

>>> edit >>> btw, $5 Canadian Silver Maple Leaf is one troy ounce... a smidgen over 31 grams.
Edited by IBGolden
07/06/2012 8:12 pm
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
btw, $5 Canadian Silver Maple Leaf is one troy ounce... a smidgen over 31 grams.

I was referring to the Aussie $5 coins, We seen to be a bit more generous with the silver here
Pillar of the Community
IBGolden's Avatar
Canada
598 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
^^^ OOOpppsss ... I was all consumed with the topic, Canadian RCM NCLT, and ah, The Announcement of Expected Disappointment, and the pending $20 for $20 fiasco... and all that jazz.
Valued Member
Senex's Avatar
291 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  8:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Senex to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Generally speaking but with a few glaring exceptions, Canadian NCLT coins and sets drop significantly in value within a few years of issue.
Without a doubt, the RCM produced some very attractive coins but generally charges too much for them (and forget about postage from Canada to USA - oy vey!).
Pillar of the Community
IBGolden's Avatar
Canada
598 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  9:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But the thing is that the $20 for $20 series has a face value well above the bullion value, and that when the series started the RCM advertised these coins as legal tender $20 coins. You give them a $20 bill(by electronic or other means), and you get a $20 coin that just happens to be made out of silver and a quarter ounce of it.

What happens if I try to buy the next coin in the series with a previous coin from the series... it ain't lookin' too good for them right about now.
Pillar of the Community
daniels's Avatar
United States
1620 Posts
 Posted 07/06/2012  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add daniels to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can anyone answer this is it legal to cash in Canadian cents at an American bank in rolls
  Previous TopicReplies: 17 / Views: 4,153Next Topic
Page: of 2

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.



    




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2026 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.51 seconds to rattle this change. Forums