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7/8 Tail Feathers Morgan Dollars

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ammarabdulfattah's Avatar
Egypt
139 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2012  7:22 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add ammarabdulfattah to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Now I know what a 8 Tail Feathers Morgan dollar is and it is easy to tell. The problem I have is that I do not know how to differentiate between a normal 7 Tail Feathers and a 7/8 Tail Feathers. Also some Morgans like the 1878 Morgan have a reverse of 1879. I also do not understand this. Can someone please explain to me the differences and similarities between all of those. Also pictures regarding those details would be very helpful. Thanks, Ammar.
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southsav's Avatar
2224 Posts
 Posted 07/07/2012  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll give it a shot:

Here is a 7 tail feather reverse, count the tail feathers (7)

7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars


Here is a 7 over 8, 7 over 5 tail feather variety ( this happens to be a VAM 38, count the tail feathers (7 with 5 more tail feather tips below the original 7)


7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars

As for the reverse of 78, photo A, notice the feathers at the end of the arrows. See how it is parallel.. (not slanted like the reverse of 79, photo B

Photo A, parallel, reverse of 78

7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars

Photo B, slanted arrows, reverse of 79

7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars

Someone correct me if I got this wrong.
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2012  01:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While there are many varieties, for the 78 series...Which include the 8tail feathers
and the seven tail feathers, and the 7 over 8 tail feathers...AS noted above...
one must separate the type one has...IT IS, one of three types for 1878...
if it has eight tail feathers...it is NOT......any thing but an 8TF design..
Or variety....IT IS, with the seven tail feather design....Where there was a DIE design
change, wear/as..there was a change in the dies themselves...where the dies were re-tooled OVER
the old 8 tailed feather desing and changed to 7 feathers...
THE RESULT IS
found under close inspection of the tail feathers on the reverse of the coin...
ONE must remember also that there are 7/8 varieties which have ZERO additionnal feathers below the 7 tail features
of the new design which was the design that went into production
until its final major reverse change in 1921..
ASA for the 1878 series which has the 7 over 8 tailed feathers,
impressions of the OLD 8 tail design, impressions are found under the tail feathers them selves
AND DOUBLING features known to the problems of the minting process in 1878...
together with the "seen or unseen" under the tail feathers issues..
OFF the top of my head, 7/8 tail varieties range between VAM, 30 and the VAM 44 series....
then they are specifically a 7 tail series which goes into the 240 VAM of numbered varieties...
While I am not attempting to disect you coin with little photos, I am simply trying to
inform you of the MANY die varieties, that abound for 1878..I hope this helps..G
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2012  01:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
one quick not, that the 8 tailed feather has a sunken chest, one of the reasons I won't go into detail on this post, and the 7 tailed feather has the ROUNDED chest, other noted points of interest as noted above, is the Parallel and slanted arrow feathers....
THESE points alone will significantly narrow down your guess of die varieties...G
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southsav's Avatar
2224 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2012  07:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add southsav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks G, I knew it was a LITTLE more complicated than my answer.
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ammarabdulfattah's Avatar
Egypt
139 Posts
 Posted 07/08/2012  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ammarabdulfattah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah far more complicated :P But very helpful. Thanks southsav for the close up pictures. Now I know how to differentiate between those varieties. This isn't an easy coin man with all those varieties, but to me, the most beautiful US coin of all time :) Thanks guys. Ammar
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SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 07/09/2012  10:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
7/8 TF can be a bit daunting for the new collector. They are categorized differently by the major grading companies. PCGS lists two: Strong and weak, based on the number of tail feathers showing underneath the 7 TF. Strong will have 4+ and weak will be 3 or less. NGC only lists the 4+ as 7/8 TF.

Here are pictures of both strong and weak. Note the long nock on the arrow shaft (arrow), tail feathers showing underneath (circled), and the extra metal below the olive branch (also circled).

STRONG:

7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars

WEAK:

7/8-Tail-Feathers-Morgan-Dollars
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aladinslamp's Avatar
United States
3076 Posts
 Posted 07/11/2012  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While these are great examples of 7/8 tail feathers, what picture can you apply so we can determine what VAM you actually have?
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