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Medieval Coin Collecting Questions.

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allranger's Avatar
United States
1391 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  12:50 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add allranger to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Not sure where to put this one but since "ancient" and "medieval" are the same in most people minds...

It was bound to happen sooner or later. My love of history and coin collecting has now almost fully merged. I've been slowly pushing the dates of my coins back further and further.
I've started getting a lot more 19th century coin. Originally I focused mostly on the 20th and 21st centuries because I have a catalog for them. Last week I picked up a 1777 Milan coin and really liked it. Then I got a 1701 and a 1703 Russian wire coins.
Since I am almost there for the dates I am wanting to get my first medieval coin. My historical heart is for the middle ages so ...
I am concerned about counterfeits with medieval coins way more than I am with my modern coins. There are a lot of medieval coins on ebay but I am not sure I want to take my chances there yet.
Does anybody know good websites to buy medieval coins from? Also, what are some of the standard works in the field and maybe some knowledgeable websites?
Thanks.
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Bing's Avatar
United States
4253 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think most people on this forum collect Greek, Roman, and Byzantine coins. However, I do believe you can check out Vcoins to see what offerings they may have in the realm of medieval coinage. I also like medieval history, but find Roman history to be my first love. Good luck.

Regards,
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sel_69l's Avatar
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have been collecting all coins, all cultures, ancient to modern for about three decades so far.
As far as fakes are concerned, I find hammered coins the hardest to be sure about. I have not found any useful published information regarding the identification of fake hammered coins.

I have a copy of one of the best books on hammered coins I consider that has been published in recent times:
'Coins of Medieval Europe' by Grierson, publihed by Seaby, London. Cost me about $80, about 4 years ago. Traces the development of European hammered coinage from the end of the Roman Empire to the Renaissance.

In my experience early European hammered coins are much scarcer than ancient coins. Ancient coins outnumber the hammered coins in my collection by a ratio of about 3 to 1
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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sel_69l => that's very interesting, as always ...

Oh, but sadly, once again I had no idea what you were talking about, so I had to go on a research hunt to discover what "hammered coins" was all about ... so again, thanks for the interesting lead (I love learning more and more about any type of coins!!) ...

=> I thought the following pretty much described the process, or processes:


Quote:
Hammered coins were produced by placing a blank piece of metal (a planchet or flan) of the correct weight between two dies, and then striking the upper die with a hammer to produce the required image on both sides. The planchet was usually cast from a mold. The bottom die (sometimes called the anvil die) was usually counter sunk in a log or other sturdy surface and was called a pile. (This may be related to the modern term pile driver). One of the minters held the die for the other side (called the trussel), in his hand while it was struck either by himself or an assistant.


Striking coins: wall relief at RostockIn later history, in order to increase the production of coins, hammered coins were sometimes produced from strips of metal of the correct thickness, from which the coins were subsequently cut out. Both methods of producing hammered coins meant that it was difficult to produce coins of a regular diameter. Coins were liable to suffer from "clipping" where unscrupulous people would remove slivers of precious metal since it was difficult to determine the correct diameter of the coin.

Coins were also vulnerable to "sweating," which is when silver coins would be placed in a bag that would be vigorously shaken. This would produce silver dust, which could later be removed from the bag
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United Kingdom
575 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  2:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add valdiman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love medieval coins.In UK they fairly easy to obtain.Friend of mine who's big metal detector fan gave me last week hammered Edward II penny.Damaged and with no readable mint but still very nice coin.Browse ebay.com instead of ebay.com.UK sellers usually send coins worldwide.
Edited by valdiman
07/12/2012 2:43 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1315 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

'Hammered' is the term given to a type of coin produced in Europe, the Middle East and the New World between about 600 AD and 1700 AD. Hammered coins were made by manually striking a coin blank (usually of silver or gold) between two hand cut dies. The lower die was normally fixed in a wooden block and the upper one struck with a mallet or similar weight.

Hammered coins are normally quite thin, exhibit uneven striking and often have striking cracks at their edges.

Roman and Greek coins were made using a similar method but they are often thicker and were probably struck while hot. Despite being hammered these coins are normally referred to as 'Classical' coins to distinguish them from 'Hammered' coins.
http://www.irishcoinage.com/HAMMERED.HTM

I'm curious how the term Hammered came to be used for these coins when they are basically made the same way that Roman and Greek coins are made.
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United States
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 Posted 07/12/2012  3:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Usually coin we call hammered are very thin and struck without heating the blanks so many are really pretty ragged edged. In Europe, the idea caught on around 800 and lasted about 600 or 700 years. Many are hard to read. Many are rare and expensive for what you get in terms of beauty and significant history. There are some really great ones like Charlemagne but he is very expensive. Ancients are usually hammered in the technical sense but collectors are more likely to call them ancients. Medieval hammered are compared to later milled coins (machine struck or screw pressed) so the term tends to separate what I'd call medieval from early modern.
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United States
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 Posted 07/12/2012  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Doucet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's funny, I do hammered copper work sometimes at my job and all this time I've been thinking hammered coins were just that.... hammered straight onto a flan. Learn something everyday.
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Ben's Avatar
United Kingdom
4208 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  6:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ben to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah - Medieval coins in america will be difficult for you - Unless the Natives had coinage (I dont believe they did?).

what you want is to buy from England. Be careful you dont buy a token (unless you want a token) because they are often very similar. I have a 'Wine Tavern Token' from the 13th Century, I got that buy accident from an ancient coin seller. So for more...unusual stuff, you either pay a lot or you need to scrounge for them.
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16849 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  6:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The definition of "ancient" and "mediaeval" is a bit nebulous. The Ancient period is generally regarded as ending at either 476 AD (the end of the Western Roman Empire) or 498 AD (the coinage reform of Eastern Roman emperor Anastasius I that effectively begins the "Byzantine" series). The end of the "Mediaeval" period is even more nebulous, since you can pick and choose from several major historical events: the invention of the printing press (1440), the fall of Constantinople (1453), the discovery of the Americas by Columbus (1492) or the Protestant Reformation (1517). Or you can simply delineate by method of manufacture of the coins, with "hammered" equating to "mediaeval" and "machine-struck" equating to "modern". Personally, since I prefer nice round numbers, I define "Mediaeval" as the period 500-1450 AD.

Regarding fakes: you're actually much less likely to find "convincing" numismatic-quality fake mediaeval coins than you are in finding either fake ancient coins or fake modern coins. This is simply because making realistic fake mediaevals is much harder. As others have stated, mediaeval coins are very thin; it's almost impossible to make a cast copy, and machine-struck mediaevals never seem to replicate well the handmade, one-of-a-kind look that genuine mediaevals have.

Reflecting the general unpopularity that mediaeval coins have in America, English-language coin catalogues covering the entire mediaeval period are typically expensive and hard to come by; the huge multi-volume "Mediaeval European Coinage" catalogue costs $100 or more, per volume. It's typically easier to get catalogues of specific series that you might be interested in (for example, English hammered pennies).

As for sources, I've found Civitas Galleries to be a knowledgeable and reliable source; I believe it's the only US dealer I've bought mediaevals from.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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DavidUK's Avatar
United Kingdom
2624 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one I knew about :) I only really collect milled coins but I have a couple of hammered coins in my collection that I made myself.

As a kid I visited The Yorvic Viking Centre (Not sure where that is) where they had a mock up viking settlement (complete with all the nasty smells) and my main memory of the day was they let me hammer a couple of dies together to make 2 different viking coins.

I am beginning to get more interested in ancients from reading these forums, and every time I get a leaflet through the post trying to sell me coins I always look at the silver Elizebeth the first sixpences, you can get one in VF for just over £100...I must add one to my collection sometime...
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Sap's Avatar
Australia
16849 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...Yorvic Viking Centre (Not sure where that is)...

It's in Jorvik, though apparently most folks spell the place "York" these days.

I have a Jorvik replica "Viking penny", too. And it illustrates well the difficulty in fabricating an authentic-looking fake mediaeval coin: it's too thick, and made of the wrong metal.

I said earlier that fakes are less likely; that doesn't meen fakes don't exist or that new collectors can't be fooled into buying a replica. The most insidious are the "tourist replica" types, often sold in gift shops at tourist-magnet places. Many such replicas are clearly stamped as such, though you do have to be aware of what the stamps mean.

One very commonly encountered replica brand is the WRL counterstamp; these are made by Westair Reproductions Limited and form the majority of fake mediaevals that have been sighted here on the forum. Here's just one example.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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allranger's Avatar
United States
1391 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  11:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add allranger to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, thanks everyone. I will get looking and see what I can find. I will probably try to get the books on interlibrary loan before I purchase them where they are that expensive.

Also, as far as I know the American Indians did not use (native) coins as money. They used shell, beads, wampum, etc.

Glad to know fakes are not as much as an issue.
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Gil-galad's Avatar
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2044 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2012  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gil-galad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fakes are usually found for popular and/or in demand coins.
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United Kingdom
575 Posts
 Posted 07/13/2012  02:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add valdiman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was trying to change to ebay co uk but after editing is still com.Strange.
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 Posted 07/15/2012  02:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add eastriding4310 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Go to the bottom of the main ebay page and click on the flag that says ebay sites. Then choose your site and click on it.
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