Help With Pillar Dollars

The weight sounds about right. Could you tell me what the edges look like? If you follow the edge pattern, do you see an overlap? And if you do, is there one right across from it, as well?

Having said that, #3 is the only one that raises a flag for me. I'll take a closer look tonight, however there are a few things on the reverse that are very suspicious.

#1 has unusually smooth surfaces for the type (which may not be indicative of a counterfeit by itself) and Fleur-De-Lis appears to be re-worked.

#2 looks fine to me.

~Roman

echizento - sorry I took so long to get back to the forum, but my wife was a juror on a three week long trail of a medical malpractice case - and I was pushing her wheelchair. Now that the case is over - in favor of the defendent - I can get back to reality.

I noticed that the comments made included some comments I would make myself. Most notably - please check the overlaps!

The 1793 Bolivian 8R looks absolutely correct to me. I see matching punches - an obviously struck coin and 26.9 grams would be about perfect for wear. So I would only caution that you check the edge.

The 1803 Mo FT Mexican 8R is a grainy picture - can it be re-taken? I noted the reply that this might be a cast copy. That is possible. There are a number of dark spots which could be either post strike damage or possibly evidence of casting - BUT I really can't tell from these pictures. I am leaning toward real unless I see something clearly pointing to a forgery. The fonts used for the letters and numbers are the correct shape. There may be "something" right in front of the King's nose that could be an issue but I can not see it clearly. If the weight is 26.9g once again - that is correct. However, counterfeits made for merchant use in the mid to late 1890s were the correct weight. So once again the edge is absolutely critical. If you get better scans I would love to see them.

The 1807 Mo TH Mexican 8R is the MOST suspicious based on these scans. I am concerned about the overall appearance. I think higher resolution pictures could help but what I see is a bit too much in the way of die chipping. But more than just the number of chips it is the position and shape of the chips themselves that gives me concern. Look at most 8Rs and chips are usually outgrowths of small cracks or splits. They also tend to occur at points of stress concentration. The one exception is a bad die with surface voids - but these were a problem during the Revolution (War of Independence). The earlier Royal dies were made with a better grade of steel. For some specific concerns, consider the following. There is a small line segment above the C in Carolus near the Bust that looks correct. It looks like a small enlarging crack and that is a high stress area. Compare that with the cluster of lumps between the E in REX and the lower left lion. The outline of the shiled is a low stress area yet here are an odd accumulation of lumps. Are there stress cracks in the area? On the Crown - I am bothered by the chipping of the die in areas not all that typically damaged on real coins. Look inside the crown for "enlarged" details caused by chipping of the edges of the design. This type of damage is often associated with molds that are weaker than dies and with soft metal dies created by impact transfers. This one could be real but I am really hesitant. Also what caused the damage that runs through the A in Carolus? There almost seems to be a ghost second image - a possible multiple strike? Remember that multi-struck coins are often forged. The counterfeiters often used presses with lower striking pressures so multiple strikes are common in the forgeries.

Anyway, I would like to see better scans and I would like to see the edge or at least get a report on the overlaps before making a final judgement.

Hope these images are a little better.

Image: 03a.jpg
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Image: 03b.jpg
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Image: 07a.jpg
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Image: 07b.jpg
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Thanks,
Ron

Swamperbob,

Can't really get the images any clearer, (limited to upload resolation. On the 1803 it's a shadow in front of the face. After what you have pointed out I agree that the 1807 is a fake. Do you think it's recent or and older copy?

I have tried to take a picture of the edges but have not been able to get a good enough image to post.

Thanks for your help.
Ron