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Why Do They Slab Modern Decimals?

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Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
AJ and trout,
While I dont particularly like having my coins in slabs.
I don think there are some good reasons for them.
They are SO MUCH more trustworthy than a dodgy (or even clueless) sellers grading when buying from ebay.
Trout,
You were burned with an incused 50c recently. Do you think that would have happened if the coin was slabbed?
I only have 1 slabbed coin and there is probably a 50/50 chance it will come out of tge slab, but when buying it, the slab did give confidence that the coin would be good.

I get burned a few times every year, That is the nature of buying on ebay
I also get absolute gems at bargain basement prices every year.
It is ALWAYS a gamble buying raw of even (god forbid ) slabs online.
Due to the nature of my work I spend the greater part of the year on remote Mine sites, I also live hundreds of miles from any coin dealers, That is why I have no other choice but to buy on ebay.
I buy hundreds of coins every year and the premium to get all of them in slabs is prohibitive.
I would rather trust to my luck and judgment and save the cost of the slabs to buy more coins
I always break the coin out of the slab anyway, That's just the way I like to have my coins.
Each to their own, If you want everything slabbed then you had better have super deep pockets and be prepared to pay a minimum of at least double price for the same coin raw.
I will always be prepared to take the gamble on a raw coin I like, THAT is half the fun.
I am pretty sure that the dealers don't buy all their coins slabbed but buy bulk coins and cherry pick them for submission at discounted rates.
I see nothing wrong with that, The dealers have to eat and pay their bills just like everyone else.
The way I get my coins bypasses the dealers and ends up a better deal for me without the slabs ( albeit with a certain amount of risk involved)
The slabbed coins ARE becoming more prolific and accepted my some collectors.
Like I said each to their own way of buying/storing coins.
There is no right or wrong way to acquire your coins But I prefer my coins "in the flesh"
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
yep I'm slowly working it all out it's all about fleecin


I hardly think passing on the cost of buying rolls or mint sets or whatever, the time spent picking out the best coins to get graded and taking the risk of getting them graded to an appropriate grade is "fleecing". It's called business. The prices of slabbed decimals are nowhere near exorbitant enough to be called fleecing.

Why is it any different to members here getting coins from the bank, spending their time noodling through them and selling errors or varieties on on ebay at 10-50x face value? Of course it isn't at all.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1005 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ozcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Trout,
You are right. I might have bought the samecoin unslabbed cheaper and got a bargain.
"Each person should do what is best for them"
:)
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I get burned a few times every year, That is the nature of buying on ebay
I also get absolute gems at bargain basement prices every year.
It is ALWAYS a gamble buying raw of even (god forbid ) slabs online.
Due to the nature of my work I spend the greater part of the year on remote Mine sites, I also live hundreds of miles from any coin dealers, That is why I have no other choice but to buy on ebay.
I buy hundreds of coins every year and the premium to get all of them in slabs is prohibitive.
I would rather trust to my luck and judgment and save the cost of the slabs to buy more coins
I always break the coin out of the slab anyway, That's just the way I like to have my coins.
Each to their own, If you want everything slabbed then you had better have super deep pockets and be prepared to pay a minimum of at least double price for the same coin raw.
I will always be prepared to take the gamble on a raw coin I like, THAT is half the fun.
I am pretty sure that the dealers don't buy all their coins slabbed but buy bulk coins and cherry pick them for submission at discounted rates.
I see nothing wrong with that, The dealers have to eat and pay their bills just like everyone else.
The way I get my coins bypasses the dealers and ends up a better deal for me without the slabs ( albeit with a certain amount of risk involved)
The slabbed coins ARE becoming more prolific and accepted my some collectors.
Like I said each to their own way of buying/storing coins.
There is no right or wrong way to acquire your coins But I prefer my coins "in the flesh"


Trout said it perfectly. Some people prefer to find their own raw coins (which is what I like to do) because of the thrill of the hunt. Others don't have the time or access to raw coins to allow this (or perhaps they cannot grade) and they prefer to buy slabbed coins. Each to their own :)
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enworb's Avatar
Australia
4411 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add enworb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I didnt know there was so much work involved in slabbing the decimals for high grades. There are still plenty of rolls out there so potentially more nice coins. How do you think as time goes by the number of MS65+ decimals will increase relative to demand for such coins in slabs? If the very high grades are as hard as you say to obtain (and I'm not doubting you guys) then I would suspect maybe demand will outpace the number of coins available and i'll have to eat my previous post.
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I hardly think passing on the cost of buying rolls or mint sets or whatever, the time spent picking out the best coins to get graded and taking the risk of getting them graded to an appropriate grade is "fleecing". It's called business. The prices of slabbed decimals are nowhere near exorbitant enough to be called fleecing.


I agree with you Markin
It's not the dealers doing the fleecing it's the TPG companies.
If they could bring their costs down to a reasonable level the nobody would feel that they are being done over


Quote:
Why is it any different to members here getting coins from the bank, spending their time noodling through them and selling errors or varieties on on ebay at 10-50x face value? Of course it isn't at all.


Well pointed out.
people who live in glass houses should not throw stones
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I didnt know there was so much work involved in slabbing the decimals for high grades. There are still plenty of rolls out there so potentially more nice coins. How do you think as time goes by the number of MS65+ decimals will increase relative to demand for such coins in slabs? If the very high grades are as hard as you say to obtain (and I'm not doubting you guys) then I would suspect maybe demand will outpace the number of coins available and i'll have to eat my previous post.


I wouldn't say the higher grades are "hard" to obtain for some years but it's not just a matter of breaking a roll and hey presto there's 40 MS66's or MS67's. Other years are just as hard as a lot of pre-decimals (think 1966 20c, 1968 20c and 1969 20c & 50c). We've tried to reflect the pricing in terms of relative scarcity in ultra-high grades. So, for example, early 1980's 20c rolls are not too hard to find and the quality is generally pretty good so an MS66 doesn't cost much. A 1971 20c is a different kettle of fish, the mint set coins are ruined, rolls are expensive, and the quality of the coins in the rolls is awful.

As to demand out-pacing supply it will be similar to pre-decimals. Some coins will always be available in higher grades, others not. Those coins that are harder to obtain will always be pursued by those playing the (rather silly) registry set game and the prices will be accordingly high. Other years will be easily obtainable in high grades and the prices will reflect this. There's a parallel here with pre-decimal coins. PCGS graded Parliament florins have, without a doubt, exposed just how common low UNC parliament's are an how over-priced they were in Macca's and the price has dropped accordingly for MS63's and MS64's. Parliaments in MS65 are the only ones getting anything near Macca's catalogue while the MS66's command (frankly) ridiculous prices. You'll probably see something similar with more popular decimals, in particular 20c and 50c coins.
Edited by markn
08/12/2012 8:05 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If they could bring their costs down to a reasonable level the nobody would feel that they are being done over


$16 seems like a lot to get a coin graded but once you think about the amount of handling each coin has to do through, such as order entry, the actual grading, printing labels, someone sealing it in plastic, the cost of the plastic, packaging, and then of course profit I guess it isn't too bad. $16 only buys you about 9 minutes of a plumbers time and if you're lucky 4 minutes of a lawyers time.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1005 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ozcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Markn,
Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was under the impression that the cost was more like $50 per coin.
$16 seems quite reasonable
Pillar of the Community
trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK Markin here is the question that everyone wants to know the answer to but are too shy to ask
How does the average Joe get to submit coins at $16 a pop?
and can it be done by posting the coin insted of going into a coin shop?

If it can be done with ease even I would send a few in out of sheer curiosity
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Markn,
Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.


lol@expertise :) I am no expert. But having been on both sides of the collecting fence it's eye opening how much time, effort and money goes into getting coins graded by PCGS. PP and I are still hard-core collectors which is why we'll probably never be anything more than part-time dealers :)
Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add markn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
OK Markin here is the question that everyone wants to know the answer to but are too shy to ask
How does the average Joe get to submit coins at $16 a pop?
and can it be done by posting the coin insted of going into a coin shop?

If it can be done with ease even I would send a few in out of sheer curiosity


It's not a big secret :) Just join up to PCGS (which costs an amount annually) and you can submit coins. $16 is the modern (1956+) fee. You need to factor in shipping both ways, and PCGS handling and insurance fees too. Oh, packaging too. $50-60 is what an error or a very expensive coin might cost to get graded.

**EDIT** Here's their fee schedule: http://www.pcgs.com/gradinglist.html
Edited by markn
08/12/2012 8:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
515 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add the-purple-penny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shipping both ways is the killer. PCGS seems to randomly generate the price that they charge for the return trip and Australia Post is just a rip off.

Oh and you have to join PCGS before you can submit. That's another fee of $50 +
Edited by the-purple-penny
08/12/2012 11:10 pm
Pillar of the Community
Yass's Avatar
Australia
652 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2012  10:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Yass to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Markn's comment about it not simply being a matter of cracking open a roll is 100% correct. I managed to get $1000 in rolls of APEC $1s. I cracked open EVERY roll, looked at all with a X10 loupe and kept 40 that had no bagmarks whatsover. That is less than 1 per roll. I discarded coins that would easily have had an MS64 rating.

I have done the same for the majority of rolls that I got from the National Bank. If they had very very minor bagmarks I catalouged them as UNC. No bagmarks got a CHU. They are all in 2x2s.
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