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Leaning Towards The Posthumous

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1549 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After looking at my $7 coin I will need to research the question of whether all Heraclea mint coins of this type might have had 5 fingers. My coin is not clear on the matter but there is a faint suggestion of what might have once been there. That means we need to find really high grade Heraclea mint coins of this type and see what shows. It is asking a lot for a coin to be perfectly struck, unworn and centered so both the hand and mintmark are clear but we have to research these things if we are to add to our knowledge here (and know how unusual 5 fingers are). If all Heraclea coins started out with 5 fingers, the 'variety' slips to nothing more than 'expected'. Can anyone find a mint state Heraclean coin with clear, well struck, on flan hand with only four fingers?

Leaning-Towards-The-Posthumous
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 Posted 08/26/2012  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin Project does not have a good Heraclea but they have a perfect Nicomedia which has 5 fingers with one obviously a thumb.

http://www.coinproject.com/coin_det...?coin=288659

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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  5:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nothus => wow, that is extremely artsie, but it sounds very manly and very Guy's-den-ish!! ... I can imagine myself watching Monday Night NFL football with the 3-D Duke hangin' adjacent to the huge over-sized plasma TV and fully stocked beer-fridge => yup, it sounds like you've arrived!!?

... nice

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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will alter my search. I've been looking for 5 fingered hands but hadn't thought to match the mint. I did find one from antioch at http://www.cerberuscoins.com/Posthu...ch-Mint.html for way less, but it isn't quite as nice. The hunt is on!
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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It didn't take long to see that the 5 finger version is not restricted to Heraclea, making it immediately less rare. There seem to be more with 4 fingers but maybe it is just the combination of hand location, quality of the strike and the condition of the coin that make it uncommon. Helvetica's speradsheets list the Heraclea mint version as scarce.

Thanks Dougsmit, I was looking for that site but forgot what it was.

Steve, it is prominently displayed over the big tv. I am sure one day it will be banished to the garage along with my beer and all of my opinions, but for now I am still single.


I am having a hard time even finding Heraclean ones, let alone ones that are in good enough condition to be of use. Still looking though.
Edited by Nothus
08/26/2012 7:03 pm
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 Posted 08/26/2012  7:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at my old stock, I see this one bought in 2003 which I had catalogued as Cyzicus SMKE but looking again I suspect it may be SMHE as well and does appear to be a five finger model.

Leaning-Towards-The-Posthumous
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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, Doug. I think I see 5 digits too, and that might very well be an H, but it is hard to be certain without a crisper edge to the lettering. I haven't seen any 4 fingered versions from Heraclea yet, but most of the specimens I have found from there were too degraded to make out the hand. There was one that looked like it has promise on ebay, but the seller has it in a flip and didn't make the pics large enough. However, it is clearly better than the one I already have and was 8 bucks so I just bought it. Should get it in a week or so.


Leaning-Towards-The-Posthumous

Leaning-Towards-The-Posthumous

Time to punch out and go home, but I will look more. Some of the sites I wanted to check are blocked at work.
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 Posted 08/26/2012  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fingers or not, I see detail and centering making it a better coin than the $187 model.
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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2012  11:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is true. I can't wait to rip it out of that little holder and get a good look at it. This search is stoking my interest in this type. There doesn't seem to be much information about them on the internet. I haven't found anything helpful after all of that searching. Maybe when I get back to school in the spring I can find something in an archaeological trade journal through the university library. I am starting to suspect the expensive coin is not as special as the price would lead one to believe. Either that or I just hit a homerun on ebay.
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 Posted 08/27/2012  06:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There doesn't seem to be much information about them on the internet.


Time for an ugly fact: Much of what you find online come through the graces of some of our larger coin dealers. To be worth their time, common coins have to be exceptionally well preserved like the Nicomedia I linked. Even the big non-profit sites like Wildwinds, acsearch and Coin Project rely on the input of coins offered for sale by the CNG class dealers whose cheap coins are in three digits. As a result, it is easier to find information on rare and expensive coins than it is on the sort of things that most of us collect. There are exceptions. Warren Esty has a great site on the late Roman coins that fall into RIC volume IX. There are specialty sites about Gallienus, Probus and a few other common rulers. Back in the day of printed price lists received in the mail, I used to complain that every coin offered of Pescennius Niger was illustrated but none of the Septimius Severus were so I had trouble learning about the coins I was interested in. It is a matter of where the money is. Nothing has changed but the format.

If you want to help change this, do the research and post a site on the death commemoratives of Constantine. Show examples from each mint and discuss little things like the finger counts or way the head was draped that might help ID coins without mintmarks. Tel us which mints are easy to find and which ones are rare. Tell us which mints did good work and which were hack jobs. You have already noted that it is a lot harder to find a nice Heraclea than it is an Antioch. There are places offering free hosting for such educational numismatic sites (my pages are on space provided by Forvm Ancient Coins). I do warn that this will cost you money since you will find yourself buying coins not that you want but that you 'need' for the sake of your website. Since 1997 when my first page went up, I suspect at least a quarter of my purchases were made with that in mind at least partially. Last night I bought another coin because I thought it woud be really good for the website and I haven't been updating my site much for several years. I warn you that it is an addiction just like the coins themselves.
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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  07:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
dougsmit => "please" keep-up with your website ... I love it when you add a link which helps explain your coin-talk ...

Sadly, ancient coins is merely a very small side-hobby of mine, so if I was going to spend the necessary energy to create and maintain a website, it would definitely not be a website on ancient coins (lucky for you guys, eh?) ...... topics which stand a far better chance of becoming stevex6 websites include:

The Art of Wine-Tasting,

and/or

Crafting the Perfect Spousal Apology
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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is so strange to me that the reason there is little information about the more common coins is simply because nobody has ever bothered before, especially when it seems that the few people that do collect these old coins seem to be so passionate about them. I am interested in the subject, and I plan on doing some research. Since whatever I find would be an improvement over what is out there, I would be happy to share my results. It's new ground to me, but I guess the thing to do is start reading everything I can find and start compiling coins and quality images of coins. Yes, Antioch sure pumped out a lot of those, as did Cyzicus apparently. Or maybe there is some other reason there are more of those ones around today. Will be interesting to see what I can turn up.
As far as spousal apologies, I think my grandfather had it right. He didn't apologize, everything got blamed on his imaginary friend, Patrick. He was an interesting man.
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Bing's Avatar
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4253 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  11:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
everything got blamed on his imaginary friend, Patrick


I thought I was the only one. In my case, it's always the fault of the Harper ghost. I started using this when my granddaughters were living with me. Then they started using it, so it stuck.
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stevex6's Avatar
3352 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add stevex6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmm? ... my wife has a few alter-egos for stevex6, depending upon what I'm up to at the time:

*Hey you* => in a nice, soft voice, if I'm being especially sweet and/or just being me,

Sheldon => if I am deep in thought and pouring-over my coins (please don't interupt, I'm busy),

... ummm, and then of course, there is

Lenny => yah, unfortunately Lenny is the dude that comes-out when the wine is flowing and the inhibitions have been completely turned-off (Lenny can often be found striking a pose and yelling "it's show-time!!")



Saturday Morning Lenny => Saturday Morning Lenny can "always" be seen in tow, meekly following a few steps behind his spouse ... Lenny is also often seen pointing, with a fake smile on his face and a pitiful, apologetic look on his pasty-white hung-over face ...

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Nothus's Avatar
United States
209 Posts
 Posted 08/27/2012  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nothus to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I keep chuckling about the Jupiter one. The King of the Gods riding side-saddle on a goat waving at someone. Not exactly regal to my modern american mindset, but still a great looking coin. It is gone today though, hopefully one of you guys sniped it. And Good Lord, Dougsmit, I wasn't paying attention to ebay prices yesterday but to day was shocking. Versions of the Constantine witht he quadriga that even I wouldn't pay more than ten bucks priced at 70 or more dollars AFTER a "sale" price reduction. Some nicer ones were closer to 200, but even those didn't look much different than that 8 dollar one I bought yesterday. I see what you were talking about much better now. Yeah, pretty sure that 180 dollar one from vcoins is a huge ripoff, but the reverse is admittidly very nice.
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