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VAM Technique

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Valued Member

United States
255 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2012  11:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Kellyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I just found my first VAM ...a 1921 VAM 1s. How fun! I went back through many of the Morgan VAM post pages and read them. Do any of you share your techniques on identifying VAMs? Seated Nut I noticed you had offered years ago to share. Would you still be willing? I have been making notes and taking pictures of circled areas on identified coins. And would love any assistance... Do you take pictures of coins to enlarge the areas before you identify them? Is there a "VAMS for Dummies " book?
Anyway any help will be appreciated...
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 09/10/2012  11:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WVUcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would be interested to know if there are any good books detailing VAM's as well. My local coin store has quite a few Morgans for sale but has no interested in VAM's and has never looked to see if he has any. He offer me the chance to go through his collection and If I found any I could have them for what ever the original asking price was even if I found any valuable VAM's. The only problem is I would have to go through them in the store and I am not positive what to look for. I would be happy to piggy back on any advice you could give KellyK.
Derek
Pillar of the Community
SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  09:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kellyk and WVUcoins,

Of course! That's why this community exists and why all of us signed up and participate.

There's a ton of printed resource material available for a price. Check C. Logan Mckecknie's Vamsandmore webpage for a list and offering of most of these authoritative references.

A note first off ... all Morgan and Peace dollars are VAMs. Being able to attribute the correct VAM number is the hard (and fun) part. My technique is to narrow the search to particular years and mints. I have hundreds of 1878 Morgans (my favorite year), plus 1880-P and O, 1891-O, 1900-O and 1921-D.

When I look at coins online, I scan for key attributes for that year and mint. For example on the 1878 8TF coins I look at the engraved feathers between the wings and legs first to ID the reverse die used. If I note a potential keeper, I download the photos and enlarge the image (right-click, save-as, then use MS Office Viewer to enlarge or tweak the image ... lighten/darken, contrast, etc.). On non-BU coins this is a must. Some of my best finds have been done this way from less-than-stellar seller images on ebay. Once enhanced, those hidden features kind of pop out.

Another group I scrutinize is the 1878-S. The key points are: Long nock or short nock; 'r' in Trust broken or unbroken; and fourth right star broken, unbroken. I view the reverse first and note the first two pick-up points (PUPs), then the obverse to note the star. I can narrow the coin to a much smaller group with these features. I also scan the area between the right wing and eagle's body (funky feathers) and the eagle's right wing (viewer's left) for the 18/18A (see twohawks most recent acquisition ... "I got mine").

You will need to learn these PUPs for each year and mint you are interested in. The VAMWorld pages many times offer a sort feature for these major PUPs (it's a hyperlink on the page). Click on these and most of the organizing is done for you.

Lastly ... keep at it! The more you put into your search and research the more knowledge and skill you will gain. There are times when I'm about to give up after looking at hundreds of coins and finding nothing of interest ... then a real treasure (they come in groups) will appear that makes it all worthwhile. Join the group at VAMWorld and share with the community. You'll gain more than you give unless you are a squirrel with a disability (he works too hard).
Valued Member
Windycity's Avatar
United States
366 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Windycity to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Be careful... once you get hooked on VAMs you'll never look at a Morgan or Peace dollar the same way again. You'll even start noticing clashes, die breaks, gouges, etc. on coins other than silver dollars. It's addicting. Have fun!
Valued Member
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kellyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for this info. Very helpful! I was starting with the 1921coins as I have the most of those; however, I 've been reading that they are more challenging. I think I'll start at the other end and use your technique. Then when I have more experience, I can switch back.

Is it easier to start with MS than worn coins or does that matter? Do the clashes disappear with wear? The date, mm, die breaks would still be present even with VF coins , I imagine.

Thanks again for sharing what you know. It is appreciated.
Pillar of the Community
SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  11:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can still see clashing on G04 coins. On the obverse, that wing clash on the neck is the most recessed area of the coin and will be the last to wear. Letter clashes are not so easy to see on well-worn coins.

I would agree that 21's are difficult and SSSuperDDDave (or however many S and D's are used these days ) is our resident guru on these. The 21-D's are easier with the die crack guides available.

If you can take decent photos, the best method is to throw up the photos here and let us guide you through the process.
Valued Member
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kellyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am thinking that learning to shoot a decent picture is my next learning opportunity. Any suggestions on where to get started?
Valued Member
United States
141 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WVUcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks SeatedNut and Windycity. I see I have alot of research to do before I dive head first into this. I will post some pic when I have some coins of interest. Thanks Again Derek
Pillar of the Community
SeatedNut's Avatar
United States
2797 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SeatedNut to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I am thinking that learning to shoot a decent picture is my next learning opportunity. Any suggestions on where to get started?


Go to the Coin Photography section below. There's a wealth of info on equipment and techniques.
Moderator
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1921's are a bear to attribute unless your coin has identifiable non-perfect characteristics - die cracks, pitting and the like. After that, you are in a miasma of poorly-defined doubling and Heaven help you if you want to do it with scribbles.

Not for the faint of heart, and far better to use 1878's as a starting point to learn VAMming. That, and commit this page to memory:

http://www.vamworld.com/Attribution+101

Edit to add: Your first attribution is a 1921-P VAM-1S? That's a hugely-difficult scribbles-only VAM which requires significant magnification with quality optics. If you can pull that one off, you're already a good VAMmer.
Valued Member
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2012  5:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kellyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Seated Nut and Super DDave! I looked through a few others and found a 1900 VAM 33 which was a piece of cake compared to the 1921! I do have a 1921-p with a die crack through the. Top of s-t-a-t-e-s starting at 1st s and ending at last s. then a 2nd starts on end of m and continues to r in America. There is a lot going on with doubling and either a long scratch or a die crack from dentricles to O through s in trust , then through right eagle wing (my right, eagle's left) and ends below. How do I tell if PMD or a die crack? It is a very straight line.
I am heading to photography section as pics I took are BAD!
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