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 Replies: 37 / Views: 7,247 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
An electric drill!  Reputable NY Bullion dealer sells counterfeit Credit Suisse 10 oz. bar. Counterfeiters hollowed out the bar and replaced contents with tungsten (nearly identical weight to gold). Here's a link to the story. http://www.myfoxny.com/story/195782...xzz26upzXoQc |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
863 Posts |
Wow how do you know what not to buy now that this is happening. Hard to tell the difference without ruining the bar
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
616 Posts |
Listening to the story it is a merchant to merchant transaction where the one merchant had bought gold from the other dealer before. That said I am not sure it really characterized the dealer as reputable, especially since the buyer apparently lost thousands meaning the seller didn't provide a refund. The real scary part was the way they created the bar and whose bar they choose to use.
Edited by starbuxinvestor
09/19/2012 11:31 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2797 Posts |
The key to discovery is that Tungsten is "nearly" the same weight as gold. An accurate digital scale would have been easier to initially ID the problem (I would guess the buyer did this before drilling). Reputable manufacturers like Credit Suisse would insure accurate weight within established tolerances. Any bar above or below that tolerance should be drilled.
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New Member
United States
15 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Mexico
1304 Posts |
Woops...even the manufacture says the merchant selling was "reputable."
Look at how the bar was hollowe out. Looks like they used a wheel brush. Ouch!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
What a shame. Crazy there is not sign of this on the outside of the bar.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
616 Posts |
I don't see where they say the seller was reputable, they say the buyer is, although now his sourcing is in question.
Ibrahim Fadl bought the bar from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold.
MTB, the Swiss manufacturer of the gold bars, said customers should only buy from a reputable merchant. The problem, he admits, is Ibrahim Fadl is a very reputable merchant.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts |
this is why I only buy fractionals and usually stick to gold american eagles, maples, or philharmonics
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
It is possible to do a sonic test on gold bars to see if they contain tungsten. The speed of sound in tungsten is about 50% faster than in gold. A sound speed value between the two would indicate a partial tungsten filling. From what I understand, this is a small hand-held tester that is simple to operate. Don't know the cost but commercial metals testing labs should have them.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
I noticed that those bars seemed to be in slabs, which I didn't know existed for bars.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
I feel sorry for the buyer/s. It's unbelievable what some will do to get over on another. I find this to be quite scary.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
Quote:
It is possible to do a sonic test on gold bars to see if they contain tungsten. The speed of sound in tungsten is about 50% faster than in gold. A sound speed value between the two would indicate a partial tungsten filling. From what I understand, this is a small hand-held tester that is simple to operate. Don't know the cost but commercial metals testing labs should have them. That's interesting Ed, must be some way better that drilling holes lol. Looks like the crooks sliced it in half and used an end mill to hollow it out then patched it back together with the slab inside. Doubt they could do that with a coin, they need something with a smooth outside edge. |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
616 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
667 Posts |
That is one reason I have kept away from bars, ebay and several other items and sellers. Bars are one of the most common counterfeited type of pm's. In this case the seller was a so called good seller, my only hope there is that he to was fooled. While not impossible to counterfeit I stick more or less to bullion coins such as ASE's and Maples. Though as the price goes up my guess is you will see more of these counterfeits too. Sometimes you have to pay the premium and trust in the big houses such as APMEX or others. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1200 Posts |
Wow! That isn't just merely scary and depressing - it's flat out horrifying. I'm getting a 2-part message here: 1-stick with the Eagles, Maples, Philharmonics and Libertads and, 2-stick with silver instead of other PMs because the cost/oz is down where it isn't worth the bother for the bad guys to go to the trouble of counterfeiting it.
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Replies: 37 / Views: 7,247 |
Posted 09/19/2012 11:29 am
