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Early Dollar Question

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tomtom777's Avatar
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 Posted 09/21/2012  11:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I have been looking at these early dollars and while they are a little out of reach I'm just wondering what the circles are or mean on them? There is a picture below



Early-Dollar-Question
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biokemist6's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2012  12:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse design is based on the Great Seal of the United States where it is depicted as clouds surrounding 13 stars in a circle above the eagle. I guess that the clouds had to be spread out due to size constraints on a coin vs. seal.
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tomtom777's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2012  12:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do the clouds mean of stand for anything?
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2012  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Do the clouds mean of stand for anything?


i dont think so or least that I can research successfully

however, the draped bust design history itself makes a great read and if you can study it a bit you'll lead a nice lesson in American coinage history when you are making conversation as your guests drool over your wares
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philadelphian's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2012  10:19 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The clouds just represent the firmament of Heaven. Perhaps without them, the stars would just appear to be decorative features, common in heraldry (and called "mullets"). With the heavens represented, it's made clear that these are meant to be true stars, and call up a common metaphor of early America, that our thirteen new states are like the stars in a new constellation in the sky. This image was rendered in words on the "Nova Constellatio" copper coin.
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nod2003's Avatar
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 Posted 09/22/2012  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nod2003 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought those were chains, not clouds.
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2012  04:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In Heraldry Mullets are five pointed, six pointed figures are stars.
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tomtom777's Avatar
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 Posted 09/23/2012  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tomtom777 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the info. I will be sure to look into them some more and research the advice given on the draped bust design.
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philadelphian's Avatar
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 Posted 09/25/2012  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add philadelphian to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heraldic mullets are nowhere established to be five-pointed, and are not infrequently rendered with six points in one depicted coat of arms, and five in another.
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Drsandman2's Avatar
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 Posted 09/25/2012  8:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Strange, and I thought they were jelly beans the entire time!
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Conder101's Avatar
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 Posted 09/26/2012  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps I miss understood the reading I had done on Heraldry so I've done some searching and it appears that a Mullet refers to a star with straight sides. Any number of points may be used but if the number is not specified it is assumed to be a five pointed figure. Unless you are dealing with French Heraldry where the assumed number is six.

Mullet. (fr. molette): this bearing is generally taken to represent the rowel of a spur, and in modern French heraldry is called molette d'éperon. In old French blazon it is sometimes termed rouwell, q.v. It might, however, when not pierced be taken to represent a star, it appears originally to have been interchangeable with the estoile. It usually has five points, and this number is always to be understood when no other is mentioned. In French heraldry the normal number of points is six.

Estoile, or star, (fr. étoile): is as a rule represented of six points and wavy. Estoiles sometimes occur with a greater number of points, as eight, or sixteen. When the rays are represented straight this has been probably by accident, as the figure would then more properly be described as a mullet of so many points, but there has, no doubt, been some confusion between the estoile and mullet, the latter with English heralds being of five points, and with French heralds of six. See Mullet.

Source A Glossary of Terms used in Heraldry by James Parker.

So a five pointed star would be blazoned as a "Mullet", while a six pointed pointed star would be blazoned as "A Mullet of six points".
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