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 Replies: 13 / Views: 1,737 |
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Valued Member
United States
305 Posts |
Hi, I have this 1883-O Morgan and I noticed something funny at the left side of the wreath ( America ) There is a odd something. (i have no clue what to call it) Any Ideas on what VAMs have that? Thanks Coinguy1000  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
It's the die transfer from the obverse phrygian cap and it's actually very common. It may be a listed variety but without more details it's nearly impossible to say for sure.
Edited by dave700x
10/13/2012 10:13 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
305 Posts |
Here is more Pictures:   Here is an up close of the mint mark:  If you need any more pictures let me know  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Is there anything going on inside the mint mark?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
1883-0 has a rich variety, of varieties.. One must still focus..to render the VAM outcome...with the basics..date and mint mark, placement...These are the fundamentals..which any tree branches from/  .... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1374 Posts |
That appears to be a die clash.
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Valued Member
United States
305 Posts |
dave700x-
No mintmark is fine!
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
It's a matter of matching the mint mark location and any markers on the date at this point. Unfortunately, quite a few of the 1883-O varieties are kind of sketchy with limited if not inadequate photos. I looked at many of the VAM listings last night and didn't come up with any that appeared to be a match for the MM location. Also, the fact that it's clashed doesn't mean that it's going to be a listed sub variety, though. If there isn't enough transfer of certain details it will not warrant a sub listing status. This area on your coin alone is rarely associated with a VAM sub variety. Look under attribution 101 on VAM world for other areas to focus on. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Can you get a close up picture of the neck area and the lips? May have an Idea....
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Valued Member
United States
305 Posts |
here is you pics  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
I need close ups like your mint mark photo's of the lips, the neck for clashing marks....and the "US" in epluribus for die cracks...you may have to tilt the coin to get these pictures to show the desired results, Thanks Gene
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Valued Member
United States
305 Posts |
I can not get anymore high grade photos, so can you please tell Me the VAM #s you are looking at so I can have a look. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Coinguy1000, This is indeed a clash. But many don't understand what that means. Here's the Clash 101 tutorial. In the process of minting coins, two dies are used. The top die or hammer die travels downward with tons of force to impart an image on a metal planchet resting on the anvil die. After impact the new coin is ejected and a fresh planchet is fed into the coining press. Sometimes it gets hung up along the way and those two dies come together under tremendous force without a planchet between them. Even though they are hardened, the highest impact points leave impressions on the opposite die. These are called die clashes and every coin pressed thereafter displays the new design feature(s). That is until a new clash (multiple) occurs or the die is refreshed by the mint engravers. Because the dies are "normally" in the same position for all Morgan strikings, these impacts can be easily mapped. Here's an overlay that shows where the obverse and reverse meet.  The most frequent visible clashes are circled in red. Yours is around the obverse 'lip' area. Clashes with letter transfers are highly desirable to Vammers. Note the reverse location in the overlay where the 'E' in LIBERTY would impact. It's in the space between the bottom of the eagle's tail feathers and the top of the ribbon bow. Now go to VAMWorld and lookup the 1891-O VAM 1a. Neat huh? Letters also transfer from the reverse to obverse dies. Most notable are the 'In' and 'st' from In God We Trust. Happy Vamming! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3076 Posts |
Great EXAMPLE SeatedNut! that's what vamming is all about...AND THANKS for posting that overlay...My point is, while date and mintmark are the first layer of VAM identification, there are secondary points of interest in general for vamming, the point is there is a learning curve, by which one learns normal clashing and letter transferals, which are noted VAM attributes...with no close ups.. its a waste of time guessing something that can not be shown to be any type of known VAM ..But the overlay is a great example/begining of what clashes are all about..Thanks Nut!..G |
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Replies: 13 / Views: 1,737 |
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Posted 10/13/2012 10:30 pm
