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Yemen Rial Large Silver Coin...real?

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Valued Member
Imasnore's Avatar
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2012  9:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Imasnore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
This coin was left to me in a collection. It is a Yeman Rial but the reeded edge looks different from other coins. The country of Yemen does things differently, so I would like some opinions on how authentic this coin is? Sorry no weight (it would help as the book weight is 19.67 grams)just jpegs for now.

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2012  10:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin has a very weakly reeded edge when compared to most "modern" collared strikes.

This could be due to three different causes - one of which is of course "counterfeit". But there are two legitimate things can happen that result in a weak edge.

1. Post strike damage - wear intentional or accidental is the most common.
2. An undersized planchet can at times result in a failure of the metal to spread deeply into the reeds of the collar - but that usually is accompanied by a poor rim and general weakness near the perimeter. Here I see a fairly well made "complete" raised rim with decently strong dentils. So the weakness of the reeds is in my opinion an anomaly.
3. Counterfeit coins struck in an open press (typical in China) which are reeded with ring dies or rotating dies often need to be ground down and end up looking like this.

I would not buy such a coin without a confirmation of weight and specific gravity. I say that in part because I believe this coin has very wide margins (raised rim width) which seems too wide.

This coin HAS BEEN FORGED.
Valued Member
Imasnore's Avatar
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2012  05:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imasnore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will have this coin weighted. I know from other Yemen coins, their minting process is not 'modern' but the weight & specific gravity should really help. Thank You.
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CGCoins's Avatar
United States
797 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2012  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CGCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin should weigh 19.75g according to Kraus for the year of 1382-1963.
That reeding is very odd, I dont know if its an optical illusion fromt he photo, but it looks like it "snakes" a little.
Other than that, nothing jumps out to me as caution, the leaves look fine with proper details
Valued Member
Imasnore's Avatar
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2012  01:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imasnore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I had it weighted and it was 19.3 xray analysis 72 % silver. Yemen coins in 1963 are not 'modern' and some their coins are not minted in modern standards. The edges are as shown, reeded in abesent or wavy in areas. The coin rings like silver and a counterfeit coin would not be made from 72 % silver which is the correct content for this coin, the weight discrepancy may be due to rubbing to test the coin for silver or shaving to remove silver from coin. Basically, it appears real (otherwise why use 72% silver for a fake?). Thank you for comments.
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wonghinghi's Avatar
Hong Kong
1270 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2012  04:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wonghinghi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin, it looks real to me except some nicks on the edge. I think the weak reeded edge is a norm of this type of coin. I have the same one without any trail of casting. I don't think a counterfeiter will forge such a cheap coin and do it so nicely.

Weight of my coin is 20.26 grams, was bought at GBP4.20 in 2007 on ebay.



Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?

Yemen-Rial-Large-Silver-Coin...real?
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Bacchus2's Avatar
United Kingdom
2889 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2012  08:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I curious as to why you say coins minted in 1963 are not modern?

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OddCoins's Avatar
Canada
271 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2012  08:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OddCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think he means that they're not made the way modern coins are.
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snowman's Avatar
United States
1840 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2012  09:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add snowman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have one of these coins as well. There is some weak reeding on a small portion of the edge, but nothing as bad as your coin. I always figured it was due to an undersized planchet.
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swamperbob's Avatar
United States
5362 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2012  9:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Undersized planchet or loose collar can make the edge look terrible. So a close surface inspection is critical in this case. There are well made forgeries so caution is advised.

What type of apparatus did you use to confirm 72% silver? Specific gravity of 72% is one thing but an XRF of 72% is different. I would expect that with XRF there should be a reading just above 72% because of strike enrichment. An exact match between XRF results and the "standard" employed - is very rare from a surface reading.

When a coin is struck the silver flows to the outer surfaces enriching the surface slightly and the copper recedes. So a 73 or 74 reading would be more expected than 72 which makes me think the coin could actually test at 700 fine not 720.

But as someone pointed out - Modern is NOT a word to use in relation to most Yemeni issues. I am not aware of how likely it is that a Yemeni coin could be debased at the mint by 20 points. That needs to be verified.
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Imasnore's Avatar
Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2012  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Imasnore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeman coins are interesting and very different from what Western Collectors are used to. I have posted another Yemen coin unknowingly. It is a 1/4 Ahamadi Riyal, I have added a edge shot of this coin. The reeding is very weak with a nip where mould was broken off and filed down. Handcraftmanship that is not mechanized or what I call 'modern'. Thank You for your comments on this topic.
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