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1836 Gobrecht

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Thomas Hayes's Avatar
18 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thomas Hayes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Matthew, I will look at the Seated Liberty group and take ANY assistance I can get. I have 3-4 other Seated coins in PCGS holders that are graded ms63 and 64, and they too have black toning around their edges. The dollar looks better to my eye than those coins, but what I know you could stick in your eye and it would not make you blink.
I also will stongly consider getting another grading service to look at this before selling. I'm in no rush.
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a link, Thomas:

http://seateddimes.yuku.com/topic/4128

Let's all see who answers it.

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United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Send to NGC to get a grade/opinion on it. I've seen cleaned NGC coins get crossed to PCGS and vice versa.
For many people a genuine holder or details holder is not desirable.
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  4:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, let me share a story.
A Gobrecht coin, a so-called, non-existent proof, was on exhibition in Manchester, NH. Something like an XF-45 or so.
John Frost, who knows his stuff, bought it and took it out of the holder. Mis-labeled in his opinion.
His explanation was most convincing, as it was an example of how specialists in a series can trump
the graders at a TPG. In John's opinion, it was a proof.
Thomas, at the risk of offending the CCF, DO NOT DO ANYTHING MORE until further opinions come in.
This is one small case in which the combined talent of the members of the CCF is not up to the task.
I certainly am not, but I'll point you into the right direction to find you answers.
If I have to, I'll write to John directly.
Sadly, his job takes him on the road a lot, overseas, and I have trouble reaching him.
That is why I posted on the online Liberty Seated Journal.

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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, let me share a story.
A Gobrecht coin, a so-called, non-existent proof, was on exhibition in Manchester, NH. Something like an XF-45 or so.
John Frost, who knows his stuff, bought it and took it out of the holder. Mis-labeled in his opinion.
His explanation was most convincing, as it was an example of how specialists in a series can trump
the graders at a TPG. In John's opinion, it was a proof.
Thomas, at the risk of offending the CCF, DO NOT DO ANYTHING MORE until further opinions come in.
This is one small case in which the combined talent of the members of the CCF is not up to the task.
I certainly am not, but I'll point you into the right direction to find you answers.
If I have to, I'll write to John directly.
Sadly, his job takes him on the road a lot, overseas, and I have trouble reaching him.
That is why I posted on the online Liberty Seated Journal.


Not sure what you are saying here; all 1836 silver dollars are now known as proofs. John, or anyone else, cannot certify the coin to PCGS or NGC standards so their opinion wouldn't mean much if the OP decides to sell.

Sending it to NGC in the slab is the thing to do provided the OP has a couple hundred bucks to get their expertise (and then have it re-slabbed by PCGS) if he wants to.
ANA #R3154474
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Think as you will BH1964. We hold different opinions.
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Thomas Hayes's Avatar
18 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Thomas Hayes to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now your losing me again. 1. I send the coin to NGC. Will they accept it from me? 2. They remove it from PCGS case and grade it, right? 3. Why send it back to PCGS? Is Pcgs that much more respected? What is an OP?
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matthewvincent's Avatar
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You, Thomas, are the OP, which = Original Poster.
Are we all getting too crazy for you?
Sit tight - you have a very nice and valuable coin.
We will get to the bottom of this.



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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OP is Original Poster...aka Thomas Hayes in this case.

Yes, NGC will take it out of the PCGS slab and grade it. Safer than you attempting to take it out of the slab!
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Now your losing me again. 1. I send the coin to NGC. Will they accept it from me? 2. They remove it from PCGS case and grade it, right? 3. Why send it back to PCGS? Is Pcgs that much more respected? What is an OP?


1. If you are an NGC or ANA member then NGC will accept it for grading directly from you. If you are not a member of either, it would need to be submitted to NGC through an authorized dealer.
2. NGC would remove it from the PCGS holder after they confirm it is genuine. NGC would then assign a numeric grade.
3. No need to ever send it back to PCGS unless you decided to have it put back in a PCGS holder. That is your choice and may or may not have any effect on value. One step at a time.

As far the "Liberty Seated Collectors Club", of which I am a member, and John Frost? That's completely up to you. I don't know what matthewvincent is up to but be careful. Other than USPS Registered Mail to PCGS, NGC, or CAC I would NOT send this coin to anyone or meet anyone in person except in a known bank/financial institution.

You can't be too careful. I'd keep the coin in a safe deposit box in a bank. Your coin is valuable but hundreds are known to exist. The demand drives the value and even with artificial color, it would be valued at $8,000 to $12,000.

Lastly, there are coin doctors who would "work on" your coin in an effort to get it in a problem-free holder, possibly doubling or even tripling it's value. I would not go that route. I would try NGC and maybe even re-submit to PCGS.

Good Luck!
ANA #R3154474
Edited by BH1964
11/07/2012 7:17 pm
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is one small case in which the combined talent of the members of the CCF is not up to the task.


matthewvincent: I see joined the Liberty Seated Journal this morning and posted a link to this thread asking for help. http://seateddimes.yuku.com/topic/4...recht-Dollar

Your slam on CCF is not appreciated. I am not a expert numismatist. Many on CCF are experts however. I realize you may be completely honest and want to help but there are others here who have a lot to offer.

To post a link to this thread on LSCC forum is fine. Just don't discount those here who have purchased, evaluated, submitted, and sold many high dollar coins over the years.

ANA #R3154474
Pillar of the Community
United States
3184 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mkman123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
send it to NGC and see what their take on it is! NGC won't steal your coin, etc, they have graded coins worth much more than this. Just be sure to inusre the coin and all so that post office employees, etc don't steal it.
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ExoGuy's Avatar
United States
4416 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2012  11:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll add my voice to those suggesting NGC on this one. One thought on submission though ... Might it be better to submit this coin through an NGC authorized dealer as opposed to it being a direct submission?

Pros and cons ...
Valued Member
United States
255 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2012  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kellyk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! What a great gift to receive from your grandfather! If you are in no hurry, you may want to put in safe deposit box and just gather more information from here, the Seated Liberty folks and even talk directly to the auction houses about your situation. My opinion: gathering information makes one more knowledgeable and may clarify your next steps.

Regardless of what you do, I think it is wonderful that your grandfather gave you such a gift!
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BH1964's Avatar
United States
10982 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2012  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I want to correct my comment regarding NGC's numeric grades: NGC will assign a numeric grade only if the coin is problem free. ANACS assigns numeric grades to details coins. My mistake.
ANA #R3154474
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