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 Replies: 16 / Views: 3,571 |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Went to get some rolls/boxes from the bank yesterday, but unfortunately they had ran out of penny boxes and currently had no half dollars. Didn't feel like leaving empty handed so I asked if they had any dollars. I ended up going home with a roll and a few extras from another teller. I decided to go ahead and scan all of the coins. I'm surprised at how much luster some of these coins have! Almost makes me want to make this a regular occasion when I go in for pennies. Also, a bit surprised at how little wear those 2 S.B.A's have on them. I do have a few questions though;1. Coins #6 & #9: I've read about experimental rinse Sacagawea's and these 2 coins appear to have a different finish than the others. Your thoughts? 2. Did they ever change the metal composition(even slightly) for the Presidential dollars? Every Ulysses S. Grant Dollar I receive seems to be a lot darker than $'s from earlier years (like the James Madison coins I got in this roll). 3. I've never received a roll of small dollars from the bank before, is this what the average roll looks like? 4. For the coins I have multiple's of, which coin would you chose if you only had to choose 1. (I'm having trouble deciding!) Thanks ahead of time guys and gals!  The images below are larger than they appear. Click an image to view it in full size.  |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
I would guess that most small dollars will have very little wear and a lot of luster because they have never been especially popular in circulation in the United States. The color on the goldens also probably depends on how long the coin's been in circulation, and not on any change in composition.
Edited by cursive
12/02/2012 12:38 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
162 Posts |
Well, if you read what I said it goes completely against what you just said. All of the darker coins I am finding are from 2011 and on. The bright coins are from 2007. It seems the longer they are in circulation, the brighter they are. That's why I was asking.
I'm fully aware of how coins gather wear & lose color through time, that is why I mentioned that the darker coins are almost brand new (2011), not trying to sound rude. I guess I could possibly just be unlucky, but I have never seen a 2011 dollar that wasn't dark even if it appears to have 0 wear.
Edited by TheCentMan
12/02/2012 4:28 pm
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Valued Member
United States
110 Posts |
The second SAB appears to be a wide rim also known as a near date. That's a keeper for certain. I don't know much about the composition of the gold colored Presidential dollars, but do seem to remember hearing of different alloys and or coatings in some mint runs. I've noticed varying coloration as well and it never appeared to have anything to do with wear. I only collect proof Presidential dollars, so don't see anything of interest. |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Thanks for the response Coin Addict. I checked to see if either SBA was a wide rim/near date, but to me they both looked like far dates. I could be wrong, I've never found a near date before. Is there a way of telling besides eyeballing the rim thickness & distance of the date from the rim? I've read plenty about the Experimental Wash Sacagawea's, but none of the articles say anything about identifying one as such. I plan on collecting 1 of each Presidential coin in MS 65+ just for the novelty, not looking for money (I search pennies/halves for that). Maybe I'll come across an error in the process, but I'm not counting it. If I do, it'll be a nice surprise. Small Dollar errors are quite hard to come by (but are quite valuable!), I don't think I'd specifically roll hunt to find them. As someone who collects Presidential dollars (you), what do you think I should look for in a MS 65+ coin? Of course there aren't grading charts for them yet, so anything helps. :) |
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
TheCentMan, I would say that you are operating with too little information to support your hypothesis. There seems to be very little information as to how small dollars age in circulation. We are treading in unknown territory here. But there was no change in the composition of the golden dollars at all, because vending machines are calibrated to the specific properties in the coin, so the difference in rinse would be a possibility. The age of the coin doesn't have to correlate with how much luster is left, it's how much they've been handled and exposed to the chemicals from human hands. If they've been sitting in a vault somewhere for five years, there is little that could have happened to them to age their surface. On the other hand, if they've been handled more often, they would have been exposed to more chemicals and thus would be darker, no matter what rinse they were put through. The older coins might have not been handled much, and the newer coins might have been handled more. Many more Madison dollars were issued than Grant dollars (172 million vs 76 million), and they were the first year of issue, so people might have saved more, and the Treasury might have more in its vaults. Also, in the roll of dollars I got on Friday, I found really nice and shiny Lincoln and Hayes dollars, which are about as old as your Grants. I didn't keep them because I need to spend them and don't have an album or anything to put them in systematically and safely, but eventually I will. Probably soon. I don't think there are very many people who search small dollar rolls, and I know very few in the public use dollar coins, so this is only a conjecture. What we need is more data. Maybe a small dollar roll searching thread, just to compile more information about the composition of the rolls and color of the coins would be useful. Remember, small dollars don't circulate very much, so the composition of rolls might be dictated by what the Treasury releases from the vaults more than what is circulated. Finally, I wouldn't really be surprised at the level of wear on the SBA's. Those weren't popular either, or else they would be in circulation. |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
I guess I will have to disagree with you again. If you say a difference in rinse is just a possibility, I'm guessing you haven't read into the experiments the mint preformed with golden dollars in 1999. A difference in rinse isn't a possibility, it's a known fact & are graded as PCGS as "Experimental Rinse". They not only experimented with the rinse, but they also experimented with the composition, layers and finish for the alloy to be used for the Sacagawea dollar. Also, there is information about how Small Dollars age within time on several sites. They naturally become darker with time, giving them sort of an antique finish. If the coins are handled frequently the darker patina wears off on exposed areas. I'm aware of how coins lose luster through the years caused by chemicals, thanks for the lesson but that wasn't what I was asking. I think you might be confused at what I am asking, I'm not saying the Presidential dollars were rinsed, that was for the Sacagaweas. I'm fully aware of what you just stated, but through my observations I saw a trend and thought I would ask hoping someone else out there has seen a fair share of Grant's themselves (25+), otherwise what you say is just speculative. You do however bring up a good point about how many Madison dollars were minted, that could be a factor. However, I've also looked online for all images possible of Grant Dollars and could only find 1 coin that appeared the same color as my Madisons. Even the mint wrapped rolls of Grant Dollars appear to be noticeably darker in color. Here's a picture of my well handled, well worn Sac Dollar to show you what I mean by them getting lighter as they are handled more.  Edited by TheCentMan
12/02/2012 7:59 pm
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Valued Member
United States
80 Posts |
Well, all coins are rinsed as part of the production process. The point of the "experimental" rinse was to prevent spotting, and as 6 and 9 don't have it, it might be a possibility. However, I've read that most of those are dated 2001, and only a few authentic ones are dated 2000. Also, the experimental rinse is only known for the Philadelphia mint that year, and as 6 and 9 are from Denver, they probably don't have it. There is apparently a 2006-D experimental rinse dollar, though.
There might be something up with Grants, but I couldn't say without hard data. Posting a thread here specifically about that would bring more of a response.
Edited by cursive
12/02/2012 8:35 pm
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Good points! If they were experimental rinses, they would be quite rare so they most likely aren't, but I won't completely rule it out. I noticed in an article about the 2006-D Experimental Rinse it said: "Right away I noticed something odd. The end coin from the Denver Mint roll was a strange color and had some odd "hits" on the rims." I noticed an odd "hit" on the rim of one of my Sac Dollars, I'll double check to see if it's one of the odd looking ones, I didn't look too much into it. It didn't appear to be a normal coin hit, it looks as if there was a vertical line struck into the coin (I almost thought it was edge lettering for a second). I have a guess about the Grant Dollars though, but it is just that, a guess. I'm thinking that the sheets they used to get the blanks for the Grants were a bit old. Maybe the mint had too many sheets of metal for small dollars (they could have anticipated they'd be more popular than they were) so some of them ended up laying around longer than others. The sheets they would have used for the 2007 Presidential dollars were probably new(er). |
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Upon further inspection coin #6 is the one with the odd "hit". I looked at the image of the 2006-D Experimental Rinse, and it appears to have the same odd "hit" in the same exact location. You can see where the rim is raised to the left of her hood. I will try to take a picture or scan the rim so you can see what it looks like. I was unable to find a picture of the rim on the 2006-D though, if anyone can help me there it'd be greatly appreciated! I'm not quite sure who even owns that coin anymore or I might just ask them myself.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
as someone who loves presidential dollars(they were the first coin I started collecting, much earlier than starting to collect other coins)and gets any they have at the bank or I see them in circulation. this is my breakdown aqquired so far.
2 2007 george washington. 1 au 1 bu. both d mint marks
5 2007 james madison. sadly only 2 are in au/bu. the au/bu are both p's the other 3 d's.
1 2007 john adams. fairly worn out, its been circulated for a while in its past. d mintmark
7 2008 andrew jackson. 3 are worn. all d mintmark
1 2008 john quincy adams. bu d mintmark
5(miscounted and listed as 4 earlier) 2008 martin van burren. 1of them looksau/bu. all 5 d mintmark
3 2009 zachary taylor. 2 of them au/bu 2 d mintmark 1 p mintmark
3 2009 zachary taylor. all in poor shape:(
1 2009 john tyler. bu d mintmark
1 2009 james k polk. badly worn d mintmark
1 2009 william henry harison. badly worn p mintmark
1 2010 franklin pierce. au p mintmark
2 2010 millard fillmore. one is beat up but the other looks great. both d mintmark
3 2010 james buchanan. 2 look au/bu all d mintmark
4 2010 abraham lincoln. 2 of them look ok. all d mintmarks
6 2011 james garfield. all au/bu and nice and shiny. all d mint marks.
15 2011 andrew johnson. a few of them look darker compared to their older brothers but its from being circulated. all d mintmark.
13 2011 rutherford b hayes, 8 of them looking like the day they were minted pretty much. all d mint mark
9 2011 ulysses s grant. again, I cant see any difference between them and the older ones. all d mintmarks
having all of those I dont notice what you saw personally. it seems my area leans very heavy to the d mint mark.
Edited by justin3651
12/03/2012 01:05 am
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Quite a collection there! I'm envious! So you have yet to find a BU Grant? I noticed you didn't mention if any were au/bu. I think what I should be asking is if anyone has found a BU Grant yet. I've only seen 1 and it was on ebay for $80. I've been looking to buy one since I can't seem to find one. :x (Just checked again, and it seems there are now a few on ebay. I guess I just have terrible luck) Just curious, are your coins P or D? All of mine seem to be D, I live on the west coast so I guess that makes sense. Edited by TheCentMan
12/02/2012 10:03 pm
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
Okay, managed to get a decent picture of the rim. Doesn't look like a normal coin hit to me. I also find it odd that the article on the 2007-D Experimental Rinse specifically mentioned that it had odd "hits" on the rim. Could these "hits" possibly be markers to identify that they were experimental coins so they could pull them easier?  Edited by TheCentMan
12/02/2012 10:46 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
2 of them are perfect, I cant find a single scratch or anything and they have all their original luster. 2 of them have a few small scratches and still have the original luster. 2 of them have the orignal luster but a few deep scratch marks. one of them has something spilled on it or something and 1 is scratch free but dirty.
wow, I never would of imagined they would be that rare and desired. I might just have to step my game up and start hitting more banks.
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Valued Member
United States
162 Posts |
From a general search on ebay, Grant Dollars turned up the least results for BU coins, only 16 listings. I didn't check every single coin, but most had at least 2 pages and 50+ listings. I'll do a full search later as I am curious. I'm curious as to the population report of Grant Dollars in the extremely high grade, but unfortunately I'm not a member with NGC or PCGS. ): I'm considering becoming a member of PCGS so I have access to their pop reports, are they a better choice than NGC? Since I'm going to be actively searching through small dollar rolls, I think I might start a Small Dollar Roll Searching thread to gather raw statistics from multiple people. That way I'll have a larger sample pool and my results won't be so regionally biased. Do you think people would report on the number of coins & how many were BU or is that too much to ask? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
621 Posts |
i forgot the mintmarks. sorry, I'm going to edit it to include them.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,571 |
Posted 12/02/2012 4:12 pm
