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Taxes On Circulated Coins?

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New Member

Canada
46 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  01:00 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Northern to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I'm very curious to know what everyone's experience is when buying circulated coins - have you had to pay taxes?

I am referring to old pennies, silver dollars, etc. whether graded or not, singles or in sets....

1) When you buy at a bricks and mortar store ?
2) When you buy online from a dealer?
3) When you buy from a canadian ebayer?
4) other?

And besides your experience.....what is the actual correct interpretation on this one?

thanks for your contributions in advance
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tpg22's Avatar
United States
919 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  08:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tpg22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This tax question seems to be coming up a lot these days. In WI every purchase at a LCS (brick and mortar) is supposed to include tax. The 3 coin stores I frequent all charge me tax no matter how I pay or what I buy. Bullion, new coins, old coins, slabs etc. They all charge a 3% premium for charge cards. The online dealers I have dealt with don't charge but in WI the buyer is to report purchases on tax form for that year. I have not purchased from a Canadian Ebayer.
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  09:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All bussiness owners, people who charge the public for their goods, and thus coin dealers that make more than $3,000/year in Canada (think that was the number) are obligated to collect the appropriate sales tax from their customers.

Dealers that sell off of their own webstites usually make more than that, so they charge tax.

On ebay, I don't charge sales tax because I don't sell more than $3000 worth on ebay annually.
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CC-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
3690 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CC-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not enough space on this forum to exhaust the tax laws but in simple terms.....

The threshold for mandatory registration is $30,000 in any 12 month consecutive period (technically it's 13 months but again let's keep it simply). The $30k threshold is gross sales and doesn't distinguish between how the sale is completed. That is, if 10k are on ebay and 20k are at a physical store, then all 30k in sales is subject to tax.

Registration can be done on a voluntary basis below that threshold.

Incidentally, buyers have an obligation here too. If you reside in an area where tax would apply, but you purchase an item from another jurisdiction where tax is not charged, you have a responsibility to report the purchase and remit the taxes to the government. I can't imagine that anyone ever does that on small purchases though.

In terms of real world experience, it's basically large Canadian sellers (either ebay or in a store) that charge taxes. International sellers generally don't charge tax, though it can be collected when the package is delivered. Again the tax burden falls to the purchaser and collected or not, the purchaser is responsible to ensure the tax is paid.

Small sellers on ebay or other places usually don't charge tax.

You can bet that CRA keep an eye on ebay sellers who fail to register (i.e. exceed the threshold).
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
.999+ silver & gold are sales tax exempt for most countries due to international agreements. If someone is charging me HST on bullion I just send them a message saying it should be tax exempt. A couple of times on ebay I've not noticed and paid and then later requested a refund and I've always gotten it.
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  11:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Ottawa

I knew it started with a 3
New Member
Canada
46 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  12:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Northern to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very helpful answers so far.....

So one question I still have is: Should tax be collected/paid when selling older, circulated coins or banknotes? It seems crazy to ask me to pay taxes for example on a 1951 circulated quarter that I want to buy on ebay to put in my quarter collection....

thanks
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SilverBug's Avatar
Canada
862 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SilverBug to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought pure silver coin from asyn, still got 12% tax charged, anyone else has same experience?
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CC-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
3690 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  1:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CC-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So one question I still have is: Should tax be collected/paid when selling older, circulated coins or banknotes? It seems crazy to ask me to pay taxes for example on a 1951 circulated quarter that I want to buy on ebay to put in my quarter collection....



Assuming we are talking about Canada, if the seller is a GST/HST registrant, then Yes.

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timnic44's Avatar
Canada
535 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add timnic44 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My question about this is.....How many sellers are charging tax just to collect the extra revenue?
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  6:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I am aware, that isn't legal.
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Canada
789 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shopaholic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few questions too...

(1) Do buyers have the right to request the sellers for their GST/PST/HST number? And do sellers have the responsibility to disclose their number?
(2) In situation like what SilverBug mentioned, could we request for the GST/PST/HST number and get some kind of reimbursement from some tax department if tax shouldn't be charged?
(3) Lastly, some ebay sellers claim they are in Canada and collected tax for *non* .999 silver coins, but then ship the coins from Germany. If those shipments got charged tax/duty by custom, how can we get reimbursement?

Thanks!
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noahs-numismatics's Avatar
Canada
3167 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  6:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add noahs-numismatics to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, and a 1951 quarter is not a bullion coin. It wasn't produced for bullion purposes, it was produced for circulation. Even if its value is purley silver, it wasn't produced for bullion purposes, thus it should not be tax exempt.
They are still all collector items. They'll charge you tax on an antique vase, so its kind of the same thing.
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Dcadon's Avatar
Canada
1360 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dcadon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have read that investments in precious metals must be of specific purity to qualify as "investments" as opposed to a product for your collection. The numbers are 24kt or 99.5% pure gold or better. and 99.9% Silver. Anything less than these purities and taxes (in Ontario) are applicable. This is why the GML and SML will be (should be) tax free, while the 1912-1914 22 kt gold coins - taxes apply. 22kt is not pure 'enough' gold.

If you've been charged taxes - and the invoice specifies pure metals, you can claim that tax back on your income tax in April. Better still to convince the seller to refund the tax.
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10458 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2012  11:34 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You can bet that CRA keep an eye on ebay sellers who fail to register (i.e. exceed the threshold).


You can definitely bet that CRA watches those who don't even come close to the $30K threshold. CRA won a court ruling in 2009, that required ebay to disclose information to the CRA on sellers who have acquired the 'Powerseller' rating. (Have a minimum of 100 transactions and $1,000 in sales with Global buyers over the past 12 months.)

http://canadaonline.about.com/b/200...rsellers.htm
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

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My eBay store
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kuh_85's Avatar
Canada
2366 Posts
 Posted 12/10/2012  10:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WRT asyn, you just send a message saying you were mistakenly charged HST and you'll get a refund within a week (or at least that worked for me :-) ). They changed their system a month or so back so it no longer charges HST on bullion by default. I've had a couple of other sellers I've bought from with the same issue. I just send a request for invoice BEFORE I pay and ask for the taxes to be adjusted appropriately. Haven't had a problem so far.
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