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 Replies: 8 / Views: 1,255 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
While fakes of modern coins from ~1850-present are relatively easy to detect by consistent details and weight--what about earlier coins struck in an era when unique, hand-crafted dies were the norm? My fear is that forgers will focus their attention on coins that are harder to verify, seldom slabbed in large numbers by TPGs, and represent a good payoff for their labors. So how do we protect ourselves as collectors? As an example, consider the following coin (bottom) from ebay, compared to a similar, slabbed type from a different year. Do you think the ebay coin is fake or real, and what proof would you furnish? I have serious doubts about the ebay coin, and would never buy without some guarantees--but I wonder at what point I would take a chance?  Norge 24 Skilling fake falsk forfalskningEdited by DVCollector
12/12/2012 1:09 pm
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Pillar of the Community
2087 Posts |
I would have to agree with your assessment: The fields of the "?" are very smooth and seem more like those on a very modern coin, yet on higher points of the design a more typical surface is seen. The blank on the suspicious coin is too regular ( good) to be true. When one has handeled just a few coins that have come from hand engraved dies one soon develops a feel for what is normal. IF I were looking at such a coin I would avoid that "?" on the basis that it is a likely Fake.
Edited by austrokiwi
12/12/2012 02:53 am
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21789 Posts |
The problem with milled coins before 1800 is that an intending buyer cannot compare with an equivalent known genuine coin.
This means that a lot of the techniques for identifying fake ancient coins also apply with these.
With high quality fakes, they can be made of equivalent quality metal as the genuine coins.
Experience is needed to identify minor differences in style, and this is where the professional experience of a coin dealer who knows his stuff with these coins, becomes essential.
I have a few high value ancient coins, but they all came from a dealer with an internationally recognised reputation.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10045 Posts |
Thanks for your thoughts--and I see where you're coming from.  Certainly, there are top-tier coins that I would only buy from respected dealers with an airtight guarantee of authenticity. Then there are "minor" bronze coins from this period I buy "raw" on ebay because I assume nobody would bother faking them--which may be a mistake. Lastly, there are coins that I randomly find in dealer stock which are underpriced--and far too good an opportunity to pass up--such as the coin below I bought for just $25. However, I got to examine this coin in person, and was convinced of its authenticity. That's a bit different than reacting impulsively to a "cheap coin" on ebay. Regarding the coin in question--I've also applied the same techniques for discerning ancients to more recent coins. As Austrokiwi noted, there's a glaring contrast between the overal "feel" of the two coins--what I'd expect in fields and surface details on the flan are just not there on the ebay coin. This is what tipped me off immediately. Upon further scrutiny, I don't like the details either--even if an attempt was made to look like a hand-cut die in the date area. Also, the handle of the ax sweeps a clean arc on these coins--probably because a compass was used on the die--another glaring inconsistency on the ebay coin. When different techniques are used to create a die, the results seldom look the same. A coin that I took a chance on...and don't regret!   Edited by DVCollector
12/12/2012 2:08 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21789 Posts |
Even coins of the very lowest numismatic value are faked.
I bought 16 carded Chinese cash coins that cost me $15 recently.
My problem was that I did not have my reading glasses with me, because I don't normally need them for any other purpose. I have enough experience to pick the more obvious fakes of these reasonably easily.
When I looked at them more closely, I saw that they they were fakes, made for souvenir trade.
I returned them to the dealer; his main business is NCLT and World coins, and has very little knowledge of Chinese cash coins. I took a wide variety of genuine cash with me to point out why my purchase from him were not genuine coins. I bought a couple of interesting silver World coins instead.
30 years ago, I was buying genuine cash coins of most dynasties for 20 cents each. These days, they retail typically for around $5 to $15 each. My collection of these extends to around 150 coins of all dynasties and most Emperors.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
I know the feeling--I doubt everything and pay close attention to my 'gut' response. And there are different "grades" of fakes, from souvenir grade to what I think are intentional forgeries. China coins are just too problematic for me to ever collect.  That said, minor coins I collect from Scandinavia are getting faked well enough to deceive collectors. So I have to wonder where this will end--and will the hobby survive? The purpose of this thread is to increase awareness--basically I doubt any coin until convinced otherwise. Here are a few more fakes that are turning up recently.   Edited by DVCollector
12/12/2012 5:12 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21789 Posts |
DVC: You are certainly right about the 'gut feeling'. There has been a few times when I have refused to buy on this ground, and no other. Happens mostly at coin shows, when comparison information is not available. I look, get quietly interested, and then just as quietly, walk away. Because the 'gut feeling' cannot be exercised properly without in hand inspection of coin, I personally find it impossible for me to buy high valued coins off ebay, unless I personally know who is selling the coin, or the reputation of the seller is internationally recognised, The most obvious point to be made with comparison photos is just that. They are one of the most powerful tools in the identification of fakes. To put it another way, an intending buyer can be at a much greater disadvantage when there is no comparison information. Sometimes, especially with ancient coins, fakes are identified when two or more coins appear to be identical, except for differences in flan. Edited by sel_69l
12/13/2012 01:40 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3229 Posts |
Cool info DV! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts |
Thanks TJ! I think I'll continue to post every fake coin I discover, alongside its genuine counterpart. It could spare some collectors grief if they Google before they buy. |
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Replies: 8 / Views: 1,255 |
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Posted 12/12/2012 07:20 am
