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 Replies: 16 / Views: 7,891 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
This is from the mint's website:
"In 1914, just two years after the first coins were struck, the First World War began. In the years that followed, the Mint became a hub for the Empire's gold, refining and casting gold from as far afield as South Africa on the British government's behalf. In the same year that Canadians were filling out their attestation papers, the Mint was producing the last run of the gold circulation coins that would ever be created. The gold coin program was cancelled in favour of gold bars in 1915.
As Canada sent its forces to fight with the Allies on the Western Front, the Government of Canada took tight hold of its gold reserves. Most of the coins would never reach the hands of Canadians; instead, they would be entrusted to the secure vaults of Canadian banks, the Department of Finance and, eventually, the Bank of Canada. "
So, according to Charlton, the mintages of the $5 and $10 coins are as follows so we know what we're talking about:
$5
1912 - 165,680
1913 - 98,832
1914 - 31,122
$10
1912 - 74,759
1913 - 149,232
1914 - 140,068
Okay, so because of The Great War (a.k.a. WWI), and according to the mint's story, the Canadian public never saw most of the gold coins minted and just sat there at the mint in cloth bags. The $5 1914 (most valuable) went for $500 and $875 when it should be well over $1000. The $10 1914 went for $1750, pretty normal. So are we to believe that most of the mint's hoard came from 1914 issues? Why would they be holding apparently equal amounts of all years if the war only came at 1914. It seems to me that either they knew the war was coming or that Canadians just didn't use gold day to day and let them sit in banks and at the mint.
Also, another question. Does the mint's new program of distributing these coins change the mintage figures that are present in Charlton? Or do they remain the same? The $5 1914 is lower than it should be (or the $500 piece is below VF-20 to compensate). The $10 1914 is roughly an MS-60 or 62 at that price. Has the mint given figures as to how many are being sold? Many of them have sold out already so there should be a number but I cannot find one. If the mintage or the availability have changed I would like to know how it affects the value of issues already out there (lower I would believe). And what are the conditions of these coins? "Hand-picked" means nothing to me. Edited by Libertad
12/29/2012 02:21 am
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Valued Member
Canada
370 Posts |
Nothing official has been released from the mint yet regarding mintages of each coin. Check out this topic, https://goccf.com/t/134544A couple of members have done some pretty good estimating on what they think the mintage of each year and denomination might be. All the question you have asked have been discussed already. Try starting on page 12 for the mintage estimates |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
I would really like to know how many of the 1914 $5 Gold coins are being melted.
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Pillar of the Community
1844 Posts |
I would like to buy a handful of those 1914's....Seems crazy they would melt them when if sold to public they would get more than melt any day of the week
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
if charleton included 300,000 units in storage at bank vault, the price for the orginal coins probably would be around bullion value except for the few ms coins.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
What would happen to value of the 1914 $5 Gold coin if 20,000 of the 1914 $5 Gold coins were melted?
This would leave approx 10,000 remaining in circulation!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1192 Posts |
The official mintage is only one part of the story. Before this RCM offering, the amount circulating in the market on these had the prices pretty much at an equilibrium. Melting pieces that were never in the market will have little to no effect on prices. But releasing more into the market will increase the supply (and lower prices). There is a slight counter-balancing effect of this offering increasing the demand though. Overall I think we'll see a slight plunge in the prices on these after the novelty wears off. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2426 Posts |
Thanks Pokermandude I appreciate your response. I am a little confused though.
Based on my above scenario, wouldnt that make the 1914 $5 Gold Coin more scarce than the 1948 Silver Dollar which has a mintage of about 18,000?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1411 Posts |
It would. The 1914 $5 Gold will most likely have a smaller survival rate then the 1948 Dollar.
Although more collect the Dollar Coins so they cost more.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3692 Posts |
Thank you, barriecarson. I should've looked at the search button or gone back a few pages, although looking through 50 pages of responses is kind of daunting. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. A couple of years ago I settled on a $10 1912 with the hopes of a gain on my investment. Now the mint is making me sad.
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Valued Member
Canada
370 Posts |
Libertad, I don't think you are alone in feeling 'sad'' about your investment. People like yourself have been put in an tough situation. I would not be happy either if I had spent big money on one of these gold coins before the BOC re-discovered a hoard of them in there safes.
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Valued Member
Canada
386 Posts |
What's next for the RCM? A recently discovered stash of 1948 $1, 1870 NCLW, 1921 and 1932 50 cent coins next to the 1912-1914 5$ and 10$ gold coins in the vault. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
this is only the start of the RCM problems regarding these coins, when you give a semi official grade to these coins and are not graders but imply that each series is better and better to the ulimate best of the best sets can only lead to unhappy collectors as the coins are delivered. one famous ebayer, who constantly overgrades his coins by 4 to 5 points still offers returns. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
632 Posts |
Just thinking:
The stash of $5 and $10 is an exception. I don't believe there are any other in the safes of the BoC.
The exception was the war. The sovereigns struck in Canada were used to pay the war effort, so, it is conceivable that the gubbermint decided to save a bit more gold in case it became needed in the near future. This is not the case for 1921, 1948 or other scarce years/coins.
I do believe important stashes of sovereigns exist outside the country and that their scarcity is artificial.
Everything said and done, I keep saying: coin collecting is a very BAD investment, it is a hobby, just have fun with it.
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Valued Member
Canada
464 Posts |
I am really glad I found out about this offering only a few days ago, and not when the mint rolled it out.. I know I would have have a very regrettable impulse buy.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
I know that it's a bad investment, but in any case I wanted one coin that I could buy and then forget about and never sell. The mint has now forced me to never sell it. It will be passed down my family. I think I'm going to stick with proofs from now on. re: RCM: What happens to gold and silver coins that don't sell? Do they get refined into new inventory or do they sit around collecting dust for the next 100 years? |
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Replies: 16 / Views: 7,891 |
Posted 12/29/2012 08:37 am
