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1864 2-Cent

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IndianGoldEagle's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/01/2013  4:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
easier to see in your second photo, the first spot I saw light wear was the centers of the arrow heads. Also looks like wear on the top edge of the banner where WE is. Four of the knobs on the curls surrounding the shield appear to have light wear. Still a great coin but just not MS.
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
23522 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2013  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't crack it if you're going to let it go. The old-style ANACS holder is almost certain to provoke a bidding war, especially in AU58. The coin is gorgeous, and the wannabe crackout artists will line up for it. No doubt in my mind it would hammer for MS money.
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jsbruton's Avatar
United States
271 Posts
 Posted 01/01/2013  5:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jsbruton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's a beautiful coin and I would have said MS.60
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murrellington's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/02/2013  04:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murrellington to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I want it!
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Jon K's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/02/2013  06:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all the help guys.
Dave, I have taken your advice and listed it as is.
I have some nice pics to use in the auction, I have not forgotten the help I received on this board (from Dave especially) with the photography. Still learning on all fronts. Thanks again for all of the help and tips.
Jon
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westcoin's Avatar
United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2013  8:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Can someone articulate what I should be looking for? To separate a high AU from a low MS?


I always check the horizontal shield lines on the upper right side. They will usually show a touch of softness when rubbed, not so much wear as a duller point from finger oils and such. The "WE" is notoriously not struck up so well, on many examples, as the mint was in a hurry to mint millions of these, from a somewhat hard metal planchet mix. (though not as hard as nickel) the copper, brass, tin could be tough on the dies back then, and the dies were often used long after they should have been retired. Many showing wear from polishing and die cracks from stress.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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dsfreeworld's Avatar
United States
4337 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2013  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dsfreeworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm just amazed at how the TPG Services manipulate the market. It's an AU58 but because we are 2 decades in the future and different people would handle the coin at a different TPG they might take it to an MS+ grade. SO what is the coin? An AU or an MS? And why should I buy into any of the TPG manipulation of the market place?

Grading is TOO subjective which kills all of its credibility when one TPG says blue and other shouts red and consumer winds up paying more for the other color. SOOOOOO incredibly confusing and unfair to the rest of us.

TPGs should exist with the soul purpose of authentication and not assign fairy tale grades over one another to manipulate the market place.

Rant = over
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nohope587's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nohope587 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its an AU 58 coin ANACS were my base line for 2 cents they always came within a point or two of my own grade. I base my grading of coins for the most part on my 1970's photograde. Recently ANACS has turned to what I and many would call market grade. where eye appeal plays a major part in the grade. A nice coin such as yours would almost certainly be bumped a couple of points in today's ANACS Personally I find NGC the worst for this. Your second picture shows the wear that the first did not. As with all coins I tend not to take note of the grade on the holder and assign my own based on the coin and pay accordingly. Makes for fewer purchase but there are dealers who sell based on technical grade rather than market. For Two Cents at least if its in an small older holder it will generally sell for a premium over the listed grade value.
Edited by nohope587
01/03/2013 3:43 pm
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Jon K's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  5:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I sold it for just a tad over AU money to a CCF member from this discussion.
I will not reveal whom, unless said member chooses to disclose.
We will have another set of eyes on it in a day or two, maybe we will get another opinion.
I couldn't see any of the wear that nohope speaks of. Now, my eye for copper is COMPLETELY untrained, so take that for what it is worth.
In hand, looks MS61 to me.
This is fun! I have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion!
Jon
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SsuperDdave's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  5:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I couldn't see any of the wear that nohope speaks of.


There is nobody in this forum whose opinion I would place higher than nohope's with regard to 2C issues. He has more experience with them than the rest of us combined.
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nohope587's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  7:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nohope587 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the vote of confidence SsuperDdave but I would not call myself an expert.

1864-2-Cent

Jon K I have circled the points on the your coin that first show wear the left arrow certainly appears to have a small circular flat area based on the picture and the scrolling on the shield edges should be more pronounced. Yours is a fairly well struck coin and had the dies been in a little better condition the arrows would have actually had a central ridge.
the middle leaf on the left is also a high point and there again appears to be some wear on yours from the picture.
The D has a complete upper serif normally this is partial or missing. If I had my reference material here with me in Mexico I could probably come up with the die pairing used.
Some pics from an MS coin of the areas I marked

1864-2-Cent
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mds308's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great thread.
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Jon K's Avatar
United States
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 Posted 01/03/2013  9:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nohope, I almost asked you to mark up my pic, but figured it was asking too much. Thank you so much for taking that time.
I was absolutely focusing on those areas, but just have not the experience to know what to look for. I was not looking for structure at all, but for a break in the color or luster.
I have no experience with copper, is why I enjoy coming here for the education.
Dave, did I hit a nerve? If so, not my intent at all.
In any case, my knowledge of 2-cent pieces has gone from zero to at least the remedial second grade level.
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Jon K's Avatar
United States
723 Posts
 Posted 01/03/2013  9:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oops, double post!
Edited by Jon K
01/03/2013 9:46 pm
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murrellington's Avatar
United States
3276 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2013  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add murrellington to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin arrived today :) I love it. Pictures didn't show any of the luster that is still remaining on this coin. Great addition to my 7070, thanks Jon!
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