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Obvious At Coin.......

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Pokermandude's Avatar
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AT. That kind of color/pattern is consistent with exposure to extreme heat.
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hey Odd.... you think the edges are burned ? take the challenge go ahead and burn a coin like this all around the edges and then send it to ICCS see what they say....

This coin was certified by ICCS and it was posted in an earlier thread...... Anyone that knows metal and heat would know that over exposure of silver to extreme heat will change the color to a near translucent color..Not Bright bold colors like this....

Poker....Try and achieve this pattern and show us and then send it to ICCS ....see what they say....Thats all I can say about this guys...ICCS graded it as such so ? I guess they dont know how to tell the difference then right ?
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Canada
9867 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  12:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
send it to ICCS see what they say....

ICCS is not in business to reassure the buyer/collector,they offer no guarantees.They exist solely to provide sellers marketable packaging for coins.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well I just took a 1963 dollar and exposed it to the heat from a propane torch for 10 minutes .It turned a dullish grey white in color which is exactly what I expected....

So all you guys who say heat ..Show me ? take a low grade silver dollar and try it..I am curious..My experiment was a total fail.....

Dbm I disagree with you..Brian is super harsh and very critical..I am sure if he suspected AT he would not slab the coin..Where as PCGS will and also grade higher on Eye appeal because of this....
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Pokermandude's Avatar
Canada
1192 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  12:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't need to molest my coins to know what artificial toning looks like. Once you've seen enough coins it's pretty easy to tell NT vs AT in most cases. It's not easy to explain the difference, but I will give it a go.

Evidence of NT:

- occurs most readily on areas with original mint lustre. A NT coin will have a more gradual progression of colors (see DE59's coin for a good example)
- will vary in color depending on the depth of the devices. This is known as elevation chromatics. Crevices in the coin will typically tone more slowly than the relief.
- it will rarely be 100% toned, due to contaminants and other factors, there are often specks or small areas (even on the relief) which remain untoned or barely toned.

Evidence of AT

- coin can be lacking lustre, yet still have "monster" colors. eg the OP's coin
- abrupt color changes
- no elevation chromatics
- the toning will appear to be "painted on" or "float" on the surface
- there will be few "breaks" in the toning
- certain colors are often found on AT coins. Especially darker "clown colors", particularly purple and orange
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ICCS does and will grade AT'd coins.

I have personally discussed this with him.

Case closed.

PCGS will NOT grade AT coins.

I'd be willing to bet $200 that the 1959 dollar if sent to PCGS would NOT get graded.

That would cover your cost of grading, shipping and leave a little extra for a nice night's dinner.
Edited by doubleeagle59
01/06/2013 1:04 pm
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well Poker, I have owned well over 50,000 coins and every coin in the Canadian decimal series more than once. With a few exceptions of course...I have seen countless amounts of toned coins , both kinds.... Toning can occur anywhere on a coin at anytime . doesn't much matter really the coin is what it is ...And as I stated to another member just look at that purple half dollar and just about all his other coins.?

call it At or NT . Its a nice coin and some people like it others dont .Thats coin collecting at its best always something to chat about
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Are you sure about PCGS ? seems to me I have seem several Rainbow coins which are pure AT graded by them ?
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doubleeagle59's Avatar
Canada
2495 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not recently.

Old holders yes. There were plenty.

Presently, PCGS has cracked down so much on artificially toned coins, one could say they have gone too far in this direction and they have bodybagged coins that would make all of us scratch our heads asking 'what were they thinking?'

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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ya they have gone to far I guess.. They will body bag just about anything now... Oh well , I dont send anything there way to expensive and I'm not keen on TPGS anyways...I have my own opinion as we all do and more times than not we will disagree with their grade anyways,,, So might aswell save the fees for another purch ASE
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NathanASE's Avatar
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NathanASE to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love toned coins, especially Morgan's, and am working on a date set of them AT'ed ... but will not pay much over spot for AT'ed coins...
IMHO the topic coin is definitely AT... 271105197852 definitely AT & 281025140512 I'm not sure about... That one could be NT but I'm leaning towards AT also.
I disagree in them being "burnt" they were done with electrolysis such as a shown in the link that was posted. People can get ANY pattern they want on coins this way, some people apparently make a good living off it and they wouldn't do it if they wern't darn good at it. While some look alike, others were done to look how the maker wanted. The topic coin looks to have been done as in the video. Can I do it or have I ever tried? No, nor would I, but for around spot if I like the coin I'll buy it for a date set Dansco.

ICCS might grade those as NT but as mentioned there is no way that PCGS or NGC would.. And your right PCGS was given a great eye appeal grade & give a coin a slab if it is NT'ing and it can substantially add value, but again IMHO those examples wouldn't get that designation... And most graded are rainbow, much less are total coverage.
(Sorry, I forgot those are old slabs, your right no more, but even the old ones most were crescent rainbow, & most are NT)
Edited by NathanASE
01/06/2013 1:34 pm
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Whether or not it's artificial, that coin is UGLY. I mean, yikes ugly

Says the guy selling counterfeit coins ?
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TheForce's Avatar
United States
4870 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would not own a coin that looked like that, no way, no how. I'd sell it for scrap.
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artdio's Avatar
1844 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2013  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add artdio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thats good Force just dont bid on it thats all
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OddCoins's Avatar
Canada
271 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2013  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OddCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Artdio, I don't have a low grade silver dollar, and I'm not going to ruin any silver coin by burning it. Ask any expert on here and they will tell you that the coin is artificially toned. Here's my challenge. Since you seem to have low grade silver dollars lying around, burn one until it looks like the original one, and send it to ICCS. Then you'll believe it. Send the same coin to PCGS... Nope! PCGS doesn't certify AT coins, ICCS does. They are still genuine coins, so ICCS will take them.
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