Ignorant Sellers Vs Knowledgeable Collectors

This is how I was raised, by someone who did one or two transactions in his day.

I give you two scenarios:

1. A customer offers to sell you a product for $25 that you know is worth $125 easily.

2. A customer offers to sell you an item without stating a price, you offer him $25 even though in reality you can get $125 for it easily.

Now, to be fair, I'm not a dealer, and my numbers were merely hypothetical to the scenarios.

#1 is ethical, while #2 wasn't.

Just my $.02. It was passed down by someone who is rolling in his grave (not from my business practices, but from the state of numismatics in the United States), and I abide by it 100%.

Most serious collectors spend years and a lot of money acquiring the knowledge and skills needed to grade and value coins.
Bargains don't come up that often and when they do they are snapped up by savvy collectors.
If someone is stupid enough to sell a coin without doing some basic research and only getting a minimum of the coins worth it is simply their loss and someone else's gain.
As I had to pay for my coin education ( buying dud, fake over graded coins) in the early days, I have NO conscience problems at all picking up the occasional bargain from lazy and ill informed sellers.

ebay could be a huge factor too...
It seems alot of people get the itch to win a certain regardless of the cost...
Yet the price of shipping some sellers want to ship a coin are just stupid,
yet there are buyers, lots & lots of buyers out there buying on ebay every second!
You would think ebay would be able to regulate shipping pending on the size of the item so sellers cant rip buyers off...

.

Golden rule....if you can live with yourself!

There are two issues raised in this thread.

1. How best to ensure your own collection retains it's value after you are no longer around to inform your heirs of its true value?

2. Do we have any obligation to the heirs of other coin collectors to ensure they obtain full and correct value for their benefactor's coins?

As to the first issue, there are really only two options. The first and best is, of course, to make sure at least one of your heirs - preferably more than one - is sufficiently educated about the collection so as not to be taken for a ride. However, many if not most coin collectors have discovered this simple truth: coin collecting is not an inheritable genetic disorder. All too often, your heirs simply couldn't care less about the coins and just want the money. In such cases, all you can do is leave instructions about preferred options for sales, naming dealers or auction houses whom you trust the most (or distrust the least).

The second option is to take steps to sell off your collection yourself, while you are still of sound mind and body. This is the harder option, especially for true collectors who have spent a lifetime accumulating. But if the issue is something that is causing you distress and anxiety, then perhaps it would be best to take care of the matter yourself.

Now, for the second issue - obtaining "bargains" from the estate sales of fellow collectors. If educating your own heirs is difficult enough, it's even harder to educate the heirs of other people. There is no "one size fits all" ethical solution; it depends on a multitude of factors. How much do you actually know about the circumstances? Was the collector and their family known to you, or are you just assuming that it's an estate sale? Has the family been given any kind of numismatic advice, or are they selling in ignorance? If you were to spot a "bargain" and attempt to offer more money for it, would the actual beneficiaries get the money or would a "greedy" middleman pocket the difference?

There are come clear-cut ethical issues. If the family has come to you for advice and help, whether you are a coin dealer, fellow numismatist or friend of the family, it is ethically beholden to you to try to obtain a fair market value for the collection - even if you are going to be stumping up the cash yourself to buy it.

I'm "the coin expert" at a charity that primarily handles stamps. As such, it is my responsibility to make sure that any coin collections donated to the charity (usually deceased estates, mixed collections of coins and stamps) are sold for as much as possible. If a particularly valuable coin comes in and I want to buy it myself, here's what I do: I ask around all the dealers in town what they would pay for it. I look it up in the retail catalogue. Then I buy it for halfway between the catalogue price and the highest offer the dealers made. It's win-win: the charity gets more than it would have gotten if I wasn't there and they'd just dumped the whole collection off at a dealer. And I get a nice coin slightly cheaper than a coin dealer would have offered it.

Great post Sap. When someone comes to me for advice I believe it is only right to be truthful and honest. Full market value is not expected but 10 cents on the dollar is out of line.

When I was a newbie in the glass insulator hobby, I had something happen that helped me understand all of this.

I got a call from someone who said they found my name online, and since I was local, he had a question about a glass insulator he had dug up that day with his bulldozer. Also, realize that at this time the most ever spent for an insulator was around 30K.

When the person told me what he had, I told him to sit down b/c he had a 25K piece of glass. I told him I could get him in touch with the people who were experts, wanted nothing for doing it, and that he could deal right with those people. He said that actually, since it was not on his property, he wanted to tell the landowner what he found out since the insulator technically belonged o the landowner (I was impressed with his integrity). He said he would get back with me in a few days.

I never heard from him again.

After quite awhile I talked with the one person in the insulator hobby who has handled consignment selling in the insulator hobby from the start. He has handled more rare pieces than anyone. And he has a great reputation.

He said the problem is that I handled the situation all wrong. He said that as much as you want to, it is normally a mistake to tell the owner the truth about something so valuable b/c one of two things happens.

1. It is hard to believe they have found something valuable so they think you have no idea and won't admit it.

2. They think that if it really is worth as much as you said, then in reality you are holding back in hopes of somehow getting a foot in the door in the opportunity. So they think they could get a lot more for it if they do their own leg work.

With insulators, this means (since the hobby is smaller and not as many people know about them as do coins), that the owner takes it to antique stores, etc., who probably know nothing about insulator values, and just "affirm" that the info you gave them is fantasy. After doing this so long and not being able to find a buyer, the piece actually can get thrown away or just sold at a garage sale as an inexpensive door stop.

So the hobby loses a good piece from honesty!

So don't be honest?! No way!

My friend also told me that he has learned to offer a good, and high price (but not something astounding like 25K) for the piece. If the owner sells, the owner is satisfied. My friend then puts the piece up in his auction catalog, sells it for actual value, gets the satisfaction knowing the insulator will not be in a landfill somewhere, and the GOES BACK to the owner and gives him the complete story and more money from the sale.

He said the original owners are always shocked at his honesty and the extra money, understands why it was handled this way, and he has made good friends and contacts this way.

I have never had this happen on the scale of that 25K piece since, but I have followed this philosophy with some decent priced pieces. I found everyone comes out really happy in the end.

I also have, without legitimately knowing it, bought pieces that I found were worth much more. I go back to the seller and let them know what happened and offer money to make up the difference. I found when this has happened, it is true I make some good, trusting friends who also will then keep an eye out for things they know I would like to add to my collection.

BTW - the expensive insulator the guy had was eventually sold to a guy for 2K. This guy sold it for a lot more and I know whose collection the piece is in today (also a good friend of mine). You have to understand that a piece like this in the insulator hobby would be something like finding a new 1804 dollar - so news gets around in the hobby.


Anyway, the point here is that someone eventually paid the full price. The sad thing about it is that I eventually tracked down who had owned it and found he had died of cancer. His son said his dad, from the start, had wanted the money he got to be donated to a children's home. Had I known how to handle this situation better, the children's home would have been given a lot more than 2,000.

Sorry for the book here, but this was an experience that helped me be able to know how to find a balance.

My main thought now is that a piece of glass (or a coin) is not worth losing a friend over. Friendships are much more rewarding and important. So when I deal, I want to make sure the other person is as happy as I am.

If its an auction - the situation changes. When I win, I am giving the best price out of a group of people who were interested. Whether or not I buy it, the piece will be be sold. This is where I personally see the seller should have done their research.

However, I still believe I would have trouble sleeping if I got thousands by selling something I got for cheap on ebay if I did not contact the original owner show appreciation by letting them share in what they enabled me to get.

OK - OK - so I belong in Mayberry RFD!