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 Replies: 23 / Views: 3,039 |
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New Member
United States
47 Posts |
Good evening and thank you for you time,
I know this has been discussed before but I have to have your updated view on the illusive ms 70 or pr 70 coin designation.
I admit I never really paid much attention to the 70 designation throughout my collecting history as most coins I collect could never receive the perfect grade of 70.
I have fallen in love with our silver eagles and the offshoots we can collect. I am doing this for the investment above all.
My problem is that as the ms w`s were released and now reverse proofs etc. I wanted to start 70 collections from the get go to hopefully cash in one day. Now I am finding that 70 is rarely a 70. These things have spots and toning occurring after encapsulation that is really messing things up on the resale end o these coins.
I have bought pcgs and ngc 70`s and I am finding flaws. Sometimes these flaws dont show up for a year or so after encapsulation.
Am I wasting my time and money here or what ? What do you think the answer is or should be done.
I love my ms 69 brown label ngc silver eagle collection in 69 complete with the W`s. To me this is an honest set. Not perfect but beautiful coins with accurate grading. The 70`s are not holding up I dont care who is slabbing them.
What do you think we should do as collectors that want the best.
I respect and appreciate you opinions on this and would like your suggestions on how I should procede here from an investment view of the thing.
thank you,
johnnybro123
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1339 Posts |
Welcome to the forum.....I see a lot more newer coins lately that are grading 70....I think it's mostly a bunch of malarkey....I just bought a reverse proof eagle last weekend in PR-69....Looks as good as most 70's I've seen...Not sure why it didn't make it....Sure looks like they have relaxed in some areas! I'm happy with the very modern stuff in PR-69...It will hopefully go up also...Bought the 2009 lincoln cents in 69 also!! Bet that eagle set is AWESOME!!
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New Member
 United States
47 Posts |
i have been very fortunate to accquire all the anniversary sets for silver eagles from the mint. the 2006 3 piece the 2011 5 piece (got 2 ) and the more recent 2 coin san fan 2 coin set. I love them, just dont trust the graders!! going to leave those in mint packaging. All my other bullion I buy already slabbed but it seems a crap shoot.
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Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts |
I think they are real, but very rare. All the SGS, etc. slabs you see on ebay are not real MS70s. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3453 Posts |
IMHO there are way too many 70's out there. I feel like 70 is a myth perpetuated by the TPGs. The only time my husband and I have purchased a 70 is a commemorative that I loved and was not a huge price jump up from 69. Alarm bells go off for us when there is a huge jump between grades, whether it be betwen MS69 and MS70 or MS65 and MS66. At what point in the future will the higher grade lose favor and adjust down?
That is really something to think about when purchasing for investing: how many more will the TPGs add to that grade until the price adjust downward.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2734 Posts |
You can't tell the difference between 69 and 70 with the naked eye. A 69 grade implies the flaw is small enough to require magnification to detect it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
let's talk about how 70s and 69s are made. Companies, many of them wishing their names were not made public, buy coins in bulk and send them raw to the TPGs. For Silver Eagles- it's monster boxes. From here, they pay a certain fee, usually a couple of dollars, for the TPG's staff to pull out the 69s and 70s. Coins not up to this standard don't get graded. Then an evaluation of the coin lasting a couple of seconds is made. If two graders agree that the coin has no visible defects with a 5x loupe after looking at only perfect and near perfect coins for a few seconds it gets a 70. Why would you pay a premium for a coin that is perfect when most of the issues are perfect for all intents and purposes is a mystery that only you can answer. Perfection and super high grades are great collectible criteria when most of the population of the coin is substantially lower. When everything is clustered together at the top, not so much. Silver eagles develop milk spots and proofs develop hairlines... what's perfect today might not be tomorrow. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
3039 Posts |
The preferred submitters have their coins put in 2 piles. One pile gets a 69, the other a 70. It's that simple. As usual money & greed have ruined what was originally a good idea. Even in less lofty grades, the standards have loosened over the years. don't like your coin's grade, crack it out and resubmit until you get what you want. It's not right but thatsa way it is.
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New Member
United States
47 Posts |
great insight. I generally feel the same way. Ultimately its between buyer and seller and how bad they want the coin.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
The preferred submitters have their coins put in 2 piles. One pile gets a 69, the other a 70. It's that simple. Thats really not how it works Quote:
don't like your coin's grade, crack it out and resubmit until you get what you want. Again that really isn't true, if you tried enough times you may get lucky and get a slight bump but you cant just break out things and keep sending them in until you get what you want. If you dont like them thats fine, but non of the reputable TPGs operate in any manner like that. Edited by basebal21
02/04/2013 11:51 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
what I said a few posts earlier is how it is. you can take it to the bank. the rest is urban legend and cynicism.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
what I said a few posts earlier is how it is. you can take it to the bank. the rest is urban legend and cynicism.  You gave a very good description of the grading process. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4901 Posts |
Quote:
These things have spots and toning occurring after encapsulation that is really messing things up on the resale end o these coins. I'm sure you know that the 70's are protected by a grade guarantee (from NGC and PCGS). If the spots contribute to a drop in grade they will replace or purchase your coins at market value. I have done this quite a few times with NGC. I should add that I have had a gazillion graded ASE's and have never seen one tone in a slab...probably a rare occurrence Edited by Foxwoods Man
02/05/2013 07:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts |
If you build it, they will come.
If you grade it 70. they will overpay.
I have 2 or 3 Eagles graded MS70's and I have never paid over spot. Like my friends here say:
"Buy the coin, not the holder."
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2311 Posts |
True, you only buy the coin not buy the holder. If you see a coin labeled MS-70 with a mark would you buy it? No because it's not really Ms-70.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
...it's only one group of people's opinion, based upon the training they received and whoever cuts their paychecks.
If you look hard enough you will find fault in everything. I am sure that I am plagiarizing someone.
Edited by oih82w8
02/05/2013 2:31 pm
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Replies: 23 / Views: 3,039 |
Posted 02/04/2013 8:32 pm
