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 Replies: 12 / Views: 1,630 |
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Valued Member
United States
153 Posts |
So I just saw a 1956 proof Franklin half dollar being offered by Stacks where their asking price is $6000. How is that possible? It is in a PCGS PR69 Deep Cameo holder. I'm wondering if someone can just buy an unopened proof set from 1956 for a hundred dollars and then submit the coins to PCGS with a huge potential for dramatic gains. Also curious why some of the proof coins came with a cameo or deep cameo effect while others presumably did not. *** Moved by Staff to a more appropriate forum. *** |
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
1956 has a type 1 and a type2,type1 more valuable.Yes you can buy unopened sets and submit them to PCGS and "hope" for a high grade.CAM and DCAM depends on how early the coin was minted on a new set of dies,the first few that come off of a new set of dies could be DCAMS and the more coins that get struck would have less and less of a CAM.I am no pro this is just my take on this subjeck. John1  EDIT: I don't understand your title? Edited by John1
02/09/2013 05:02 am
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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Also curious why some of the proof coins came with a cameo or deep cameo effect while others presumably did not.
Pretty much the same reason some coins come back as a 70 and some dont, some just get struck better than others and turn out better. You could try to submit them and hope for the best, but those coins carry those premiums because they are rare and hard to find even searching proof sets. If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts |
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EDIT: I don't understand your title? I suspect he is saying why can't I do that? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7189 Posts |
@ coins4fun, Deep proof cameo's prior to the 70's are particularly rare. The process for production was for a mirrored surface and the "frosted cameo" was the result of early die stage unlike today where all coins are produced with this effect. Secondly as for the PCGS they have not graded a Franklin half above 69 so this coin would be considered the best available of the type. As discussed prior there are two types of proof Franklins in 1956 with the type 1 more rare and valuable. PCGS has the type 1 in deep proof 68 listed for $20,000. All this is excessive to me I collect cameo proof Franklins and am happy enough with my NGC proof 66 cameo.  |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
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Yes you can buy unopened sets and submit them to PCGS and "hope" for a high grade. No you cannot. Unopened sets are a total myth. There are no unopened proof sets left. The public opened them because they wanted to see their nice new coins and dealers have long since cherry-picked them to search for the DCAMs. I spoke with a dealer once who told me he knew a prominent dealer who has been able to sell resealed early proof sets for a while. The practice of carefully opening them and resealing them happened a long time ago. These days, some dealers actually trade in *wink wink* unopened proof sets that actually haven't been opened in decades, but are still false. If you don't believe me, just buy 10 "unopened" sets from 1963. The DCAMS were rare, but CAMs were only slightly more rare than not for that year. You're gonna get 10 sets without a single CAM, rest assured. |
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Valued Member
United States
455 Posts |
Well, that is a terrible story and really disappoints a new collector! Oh the greed!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2448 Posts |
Actually, you shouldn't deal in absolutes. I still have many older proof sets still in original boxes that I never opened; some years 10 deep. I guess I should get them out of those older holders.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1704 Posts |
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No you cannot. Unopened sets are a total myth So, you say there does not exist a single never opened proof set anywhere in the country? I find that extremely difficult to believe. Quote:
These days, some dealers actually trade in *wink wink* unopened proof sets that actually haven't been opened in decades, but are still false. And you have positive proof of your allegations? There are probably a few dealers who would steam open pre 1964 proof sets but the chances of finding a proof 66 or better deep cameos in any of those unopened sets is very low and I for one wouldn't buy a pre 1964 proof set in the original packaging if I couldn't see what the coins looked like before I paid the cash for it. Ed ANA LM-3175 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
AND, when he said unopened set, I do believe he meant still in the cellophane. Quote:
dealers have long since cherry-picked them to search for the DCAMs.
Hmmmm, so you are saying that there are no DCAMs left out there still in OGP. Every last one has been grabbed by dealers. I am impressed by the ability of these dealers to have gone through every proof set made to find these coins. I wonder when they managed to go through my fathers sets sitting here in storage boxes. Huh. coins4, muddler pretty much covered it. Proof sets prior to 73,74 had more coins that were NOT cameo or DCAM than were. The process just was not the same as in more recent years. Also, the packaging was NOT very good for proof coins. The cellophane envelopes they were sealed in allowed for movement, so hairlines could easily mar the coins before they even got to your house. So, everything considered, a 56 PR69 DCAM is a rare bird indeed and could certainly bring in 2 grand. |
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Pillar of the Community
1028 Posts |
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So, you say there does not exist a single never opened proof set anywhere in the country? I find that extremely difficult to believe. I suppose there would be some somewhere, but all those "unopened sets" you see on ebay or sold by bulk sellers are in all likelihood opened. carmykle says he has some and I have no reason to think he's lying. Quote:
And you have positive proof of your allegations? The dealer whom I referenced was a very well known dealer in the sf bay area and he personally advised me against ever buying an unopened set because he said that all the ones being sold are likely a farce. He also claimed to personally know a large dealer who had many unopened sets that everyone involved knew had been opened and re-sealed. It's just like buying a bulk Wheat cent bag. The person selling it didn't search them, but it's pretty clear 99% have been searched. Proof sets are rarely traded amongst dealers at all, but some do keep unopened ones in stock that have been opened and resealed by someone else long ago. Quote:
AND, when he said unopened set, I do believe he meant still in the cellophane. No, I think he meant completely unopened. Quote:
Hmmmm, so you are saying that there are no DCAMs left out there still in OGP. Every last one has been grabbed by dealers. I am impressed by the ability of these dealers to have gone through every proof set made to find these coins. I wonder when they managed to go through my fathers sets sitting here in storage boxes. Huh. What are you arguing about now? You know that's not what I said or meant. Of course there are plenty of DCAMS still in OGP, but they are not unopened sets. Surely your dad's coins haven't been cherry-picked at by a dealer if he bought them from the mint, but I'm assuming they were looked at by your dad. Isn't it amazing that there is an abundance of late 50s and early 60s unopened stuff for sale and then magically as soon as the 70s rolled around, they are nonexistent. This, despite the fact that there would be a much larger incentive to open the earlier ones than later. Has anyone even seen a dealer ever have any unopened stuff from the 70's or 80's. Doubt it, because they were all opened.....just like the earlier ones, which because of the re-sellability, some sellers resealed. There may be some very modern unopened sets because nobody really cares to check them for anything, but that's different. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2448 Posts |
Well, when I get home, I'll break into every set I have and make sure there are no DCams. I'll let you know in April.
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Valued Member
United States
98 Posts |
My feeling is that most "unopened" proof coins from the fifties tend to grade around PR66. PR 69 deep cameo will be extremely rare.
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Replies: 12 / Views: 1,630 |
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Posted 02/09/2013 05:22 am
