Fake Coins, Laws, & Lawyers

Thanks for the help all... I do appreciate it. I did expect to get laughed out of the forum, maybe I still will. But I am still interested in hearing if anyone has ideas on this. This has gotten personal now and I want to see this con in jail. Any ideas on what would "nail" him?

Based on weight. It is 7.4 grams and a real one should be 8.1 +/- .3 grams. He obviosly took metal off. Back to the law... Since I believed it was authentic thats all that matters as far as the law is concerned right? "" Under this Statute, it is also a federal crime to sell at a premium an ordinary Presidential $1 coin that one knows has been altered so it looks like an error coin to someone who believes it to be a real error coin"" Since I believed it was real there was a violation of this law..

yes, no.. maybe so?

quote:

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Since I believed it was authentic thats all that matters as far as the law is concerned right? "" Under this Statute, it is also a federal crime to sell at a premium an ordinary Presidential $1 coin that one knows has been altered so it looks like an error coin to someone who believes it to be a real error coin"" Since I believed it was real there was a violation of this law..

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Please stop trying to be a lawyer. To prove fraud, you have to prove intent. What you believe is absolutely irrelevant. But hey, as I said if you want to get a lawyer, go right ahead and try.

Clueless, please forgive me if I sound anything but concerned about your loss. After getting bite a number of times with purchases on ebay, I have learned to survive there. That post was full of warning signs but not necessarily obvious and will be a great lesson for you, unfortunately an expensive one. I know you will not go there again. However, this is what makes ebay such a great opportunity but one fraught with chance. If there is any doubt in your mind, do not buy, your instinct will most always be right.
Jim

ok here is the full email he sent to me... Doesn't he just seem like a fraudster? I betcha he has a new account already and will pull the same scam if he isn't stopped and he just feeds off guys who just assume its a done deal and don't try to defend themselves as I am.
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Dear Robert, I will make you an offer but before you accept it read this and decide, is your request fair?

I made reasonable effort to establish that this item could be fake and altered... I made no claim to authenticity. I did not manufacture the coin. I purchased it same as you. There has to be intent to defraud for there to be a violation of the law, my intent was not to defraud. I stated that this item was fake/altered many times before just to prevent this discussion we are having now... When you purchased this item you knew there was a very good possiblity that the coin was altered, I told you so in the auction... Now you are upset that your "gamble" didn't work out like you hoped. You wouldn't go and sue Las-Vegas for losing money in a poker match when you made a gamble... Same applies here, we had an unknown and unverified coin. We sold it as such and even took it step further and told you it was fake and altered as we had no way to know for sure. You gambled because you thought and hoped maybe you will get lucky and it will be real. You made a gamble and you knew full well that returns would not be accepted. You decided that the risk was worth it. Now if this coin is real, would you be here saying thanks for the good deal, I'll pay you double? No you wouldn't. You are trying to minimize loss by shoving the loss on someone else, and trying to bully them. Is that right? I think not. The responsibility is on you for making the purchase and disregarding my warning.
"I have had people ask that if this is fake can they return it for a refund.... Sorry, but I couldn't agree to that, I have already stated it as fake and altered. If this was an authentic coin and verified as such the price tag would be significantly higher. I am being open and honest about this and declare this an altered coin just to avoid such headaches of people wanting to return it. Keep that in mind as you bid as this is a fake and altered coin not a genuine error and bid accordingly as to what an altered coin would be worth to you, thank you."

I told you in plain english that this item could be fake and made no claim to authenticity. I even went as far to say it was altered just prevent claims of false advertising or fraud. There is no intent to defraud when the seller tells you in plain english that the item is or could be a fake. I told you to bid accordingly as what an altered coin would be worth. I warned potential buyers no less than 5 times with clear verbage.

1.) "I declare this a altered coin it is not fraudulent as it was minted by the US MINT, it is a real coin, I'm just attributing it a altered"

2.) "I DECLARE THIS A NOVELTY ITEM. INCLUDED IN THIS AUCTION IS 1 ALTERED COIN AS PICTURED BELOW"

3.) " I don't expect this to sell, (after all whos gonna bid on a fake & altered coin! "

4.) "No returns or refunds,due to the nature and fluctuations of price of collectable and novelty items, (not to mention I've already told you its been altered, so that can't be a good reason for returning it"

5.) "I have had people ask that if this is fake can they return it for a refund.... Sorry, but I couldn't agree to that, I have already stated it as fake and altered. If this was an authentic coin and verified as such the price tag would be significantly higher. I am being open and honest about this and declare this an altered coin just to avoid such headaches of people wanting to return it. Keep that in mind as you bid as this is a fake and altered coin not a genuine error and bid accordingly as to what an altered coin would be worth to you, thank you."

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I will make a one time offer to you.

Offer #1 Return the coins and I will purchase them back from you and refund full price, minus ebay fees, listing & auction fees, and paypal fees that are non-refundable and I will even eat the cost of shipping. Once the coins are received you will be paid via a refund with paypal. Send them via express mail insured with a return receipt. With this you can verify that the items were received here and should I not pay you then it would be a real case of fraud and you can file a fraud claim with your bank/credit card and they will do a reversal and repay you and you can include the FBI as well as it would be a federal postal abuse crime.

Offer #2 Keep the coins and I will do a price adjustment refund of $1,000.00 which would match the offer submitted by another user. By accepting this offer you agree the sale is is final and you keep the fake/altered coins with no further action to be taken by either party.

You know this is a fair and reasonable offer from a person who has no intent to defraud, a crook would not try to be reasonable and fair as I am here. Give it some thought. Is your request reasonable based on the facts and the disclosures made in the auction?

Keena

Ok.. I guss I have pounded this subject in to the floor . I hopes you can understand that its a big deal to me even though it is a good lauph for others. But seriously if you have ideas I would like to here them.