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 Replies: 37 / Views: 3,366 |
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
Ok so I'm curious, say I buy an auction... the guy says its fake item to cover his tale but leads you to belive its real. I purchase the item.. Then I receive the item in the mail and it turn out to be fake. Is there any recourse? How do I get my Money back.. Is this against the law? Its ebay auction # http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...E:B:AAQ:US:1 if you are curious... Help please I need to know what I should do... Would the police or feds care, would they help me? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
827 Posts |
I don't know but with this line in her auction: quote:
So instead to abide by ebay policy and federal law I declare this a altered coin it is not fraudulent as it was minted by the US MINT, it is a real coin, I'm just attributing it a altered and if it happens to be real then cut me in on the profits in 20 years (hahah just kidding)... Anyway... If there is a way to prove it is real/unaltered it could be worth quite a bit, so if you know how to tell, let me know... So unless there is a way to prove it otherwise and until then, I DECLARE THIS A NOVELTY ITEM. INCLUDED IN THIS AUCTION IS 1 ALTERED COIN AS PICTURED BELOW!!!
and a few more lines lines below: quote:
I don't expect this to sell, (after all whos gonna bid on a fake & altered coin! :)
It should have raised red flags all around and figures you would know what kind of thing you were getting yourself into. Have you had this coin to be authenticated by a reputable grader? Either way I am thinking you are, well, screwed. I am sure the other members here can be more of assistance than me. |
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New Member
 United States
12 Posts |
Here is the email I sent to him trying to scare him to refund... AM I RIGHT?
"even though you said on your auction this was an altered coin you still left the empression that it still could be original. If you would of said that this coin is absolutely an altered coin with no chance of it being authentic because someone took off some of the metal then do you think I would of bought it from you for $2500. I'm sure the fed's will feel the same way. If you know a lawyer have him explain the law to you. If you don't know one you will soon.
Option 2
I will be notifing all the right agency's with your contact info to have you brought to justice. I have the altered coin in my possision and can prove the coin is altered. An original coin weights 8.1 grams and your coin weighted in at a wopping 7.4 grams. I wonder what ever happened to the difference?
Remember that as long as I thought that the coin was original and an error is what makes the difference. get back asap otherwise I will report it."
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Moderator
 United States
6563 Posts |
I think he thinks he has a legit coin but to cover himself legally he is stating that it could possibly be fake. Thus avoiding any legality issues if it really Is fake. As for the auction itself. Do research. Find out what the error is really worth or currently going for on ebay. If a seller does not have confidence in his own items then I will never trust them. Also ask questions. We are all here and are more then willing to offer our assistance. A Sac Dollar with a blank planchet is worth around $125 by RedBook and most other coins are less then that. Personally I will never buy an error online. I want to see it, study it, and have met the person I bought it from. oops...Welcome to the Forum!!  |
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
I also sent... "You have 2 options. Option 1: You repay me through paypal all money I paid you for the coin. In return I will return the coin and not have the feds come to your home to arrest you for fraud. By the way It's a federal crime statute (18U.S.C. 331). The statute loosly reads "Although altering and defacing United States coinage generally is not illegal, doing so violates a federal criminal statute when the act is accompanied by an intent to defraud," "Accordingly, a person is committing a federal crime if he or she intentionally alters an ordinary Presidential $1 coin to make it look like an error coin for the purpose of selling it at a premium to someone who believes it to be a real error coin. Under this Statute, it is also a federal crime to sell at a premium an ordinary Presidential $1 coin that one knows has been altered so it looks like an error coin to someone who believes it to be a real error coin. Penalties include a fine and up to five years in prison. A REFUND IS IN ORDER" |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Either way I am thinking you are, well, screwed. I am sure the other members here can be more of assistance than me.
Yes, and no. Welcome to Coin Community, clueless. It appears that this is a hypothetical question, since that auction shows no accepted offers, a good thing since the seller is NARU (Not A Registered User) already. Perusing their feedback, it appears that they registered a name in December, made a bunch of little purchases to build up feedback, and then sprung this coin, the con, on the ebay public. And a pretty con it was - it covered them completely from a legal standpoint, and there are enough clueless (no offense) buyers on ebay that they stood a good chance of getting away with it. Unfortunately for the seller, it seems that for once, ebay acted with a little wisdom and NARU'd him/her. After the sale ended, of course, but you can't expect too much from them. Or, having failed to get a bite, the seller got scared and de-registered. Either way, it was an act of kindness to the ebay buying public. Now, if only we could get rid of the other five thousand con artists selling coins on ebay.... |
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Valued Member
United States
393 Posts |
That's a lot of money/risk for someone with that low of a feedback score IMHO. Also, I'm suspicious of someone keeping their bidder ID's private. Myself, I wouldn't take a second look at it.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
827 Posts |
quote:
On Apr-19-07 at 14:03:19 PDT, seller added the following information:
I have had people ask that if this is fake can they return it for a refund.... Sorry, but I couldn't agree to that, I have already stated it as fake and altered. If this was an authentic coin and verified as such the price tag would be significantly higher. I am being open and honest about this and declare this an altered coin just to avoid such headaches of people wanting to return it. Keep that in mind as you bid as this is a fake and altered coin not a genuine error and bid accordingly as to what an altered coin would be worth to you, thank you.
I think he clearly stated there that the coin is fake. Not to embarrass you or anything, but did you read the entire auction? I honestly see no way of you getting out of this with a refund  $2,495 loss!!! I could certainly use that money to pay my tuition bills right about now Back to the subject... I honestly don't know. It looks really bleak for your refund possibilities. Also that person's account has been deactivated from ebay so it looks like ebay can't do anything for you either. Or maybe they could but very improbable. As far as the email, I'd say the second email is more likely to work than the first. Back to me, can I have some of your money for my tuition?  |
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
no, this is not hypothetical, The item was purchased and delivered, using the buy it now option. Is there anything I can do? This seems like wrong to me and I want to fight it. Isn't this illigal?
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
Clueless, I am assuming that you did in fact purchase this coin. I'm not trying to pass judgment on you by any means but resorting to legal threats without going through the proper ebay channels is very unprofessional and will get you no where. He has stated that it is and is not a fake error. Legally he has immunity because he covered all the bases IMHO. He also does state: quote:
I have had people ask that if this is fake can they return it for a refund.... Sorry, but I couldn't agree to that, I have already stated it as fake and altered.
I certainly hope that all works out for you. And like I said feel free to ask for help and we will try our best. |
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
Wow this conversation is going faster then I can type.  |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
It appears that you were typing while I was, clueless. I'm left with a couple of points for you to consider: 1) How do you prove that your coin is the one from the auction? 2) How do you prove the seller is the one who knowingly altered it with intent to defraud? 3) What judge will look at the text of that auction, and believe for a minute that the coin was genuine? 4) Since there were no accepted bids on that auction, did you even buy it under ebay's auspices? The auction was properly listed. It's unlikely that ebay will ever give you much more than they have by delisting the seller, because to fight on your behalf would contradict their long-held position that they are merely a venue, and not an active participant in the process. The seller made every effort to disclaim the coin's authenticity, probably to a degree that would stand up in court. I would recommend an immediate chargeback. You_did buy it with a credit card, right? |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
quote:
Isn't this illigal?
Nope. |
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
I guess I assumed if someone was posting a coin for that much money it had to be real.. It was purchased with the buy-it-now option, It was purchased on ebay... from my computer It says I am the winner but because it was a private sale I guess it hides the details. Is there any hope at all? I got the intial responce I expected... you guys have been nicer than I anticipated, it probaly was foolish. But legally there has to be a loop hole to get money back legally or get this guy arrested. It seems like obvious fraud from my perspective. |
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Moderator
United States
6563 Posts |
Firstly you need to accept the possibility that there is no recourse you can make.
Frankly you did screw up. But under the circumstances of the seller being a borderline con with a feasible way of getting out of any loopholes you could possible at least talk with a lawyer and have him look at the information.
Also have you heard a response back from the seller?
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New Member
United States
12 Posts |
He said he wasn't looking for "legal battle" ... He said he bought the coin and if nothing else he would keep it for his collection. He said if I would return the coin to him and pay listing and final value fees of like $400.00 he would refund the balance. Which is still a lot to lose and I don't feel like I should have to shoulder that. But also, I don't want to send back my only proof of fraud back to the fraudster without having money in hand. I told him he had to refund all my money and then I would return the coin to him. He actually sent two coins, a smooth edge coin as a "thank you" that appears real and the fake one as well.
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Replies: 37 / Views: 3,366 |
Posted 04/29/2007 8:34 pm
