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 Replies: 11 / Views: 2,399 |
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Valued Member
United States
206 Posts |
Hello all, new member here. I've been an off-and-on amateur collector for many years. I recently purchased an 1878-S Trade dollar from an established brick & mortar dealer (mostly because I love the interesting story they tell about US history). I did a good bit of research since I had read that there are many, many fakes out there. The coin exhibits a type-II obverse and reverse which is consistent with an 1878 date.   I'm fairly certain the coin is authentic, but still have some concerns (probably because this is the most expensive non-gold coin I've ever purchased!). I read a great discussion here regarding Trade dollars that took place a few years back in which swamperbob was the star. I am hoping to benefit from this forum's collective knowledge. My concerns: 1) The coin weighs in at 27.04 grams, I've encountered varying opinions regarding this fact. Some say this is in tolerance for a coin with this amount of wear (VF20+), others don't. It seems reasonable to me that if the coin came from the mint on the low side of 27.22, it could have lost even a tad more from wear. 2) There are several large scratches that I wasn't too concerned about initially, but after thinking more about them, it seems odd that they are confined to the field only: none of them cut across the coin devices. 3) After spending a lot of time up close to the coin trying to photograph it for the forum, I'm starting to worry that the coin may have been cleaned at some point. There's just so much more I can see now that the coin is out of the mylar. I hope this is an unfounded fear. Additionally, the edge reeding looks good: uniformly spaced and consistent all the way around, no seams. I'd really appreciate any comments from this community. I had a heckuva time trying to photograph the thing, but I think I have two reasonably good photos--any advice on photographing coins would also be welcome. Regards, -Chris Edited by chetzler
05/01/2013 6:05 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7840 Posts |
 Looks like it has been harshly cleaned...I would have passed on this one. Trade dollars are one of the most faked out there. If you want to be sure, buy one that is certified by one of the Top III (PCGS, NGC or ANACS). Edited by oih82w8
05/01/2013 7:03 pm
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
Welcome to Coin Community, chetzler. Nice to have you with us.  I see no reason to doubt its' authenticity. That's the good news. The bad news is, it's almost certainly been cleaned. The crud clinging to the smaller recesses - around & inside the date and the reverse lettering - is a sure sign. This results in a coin whose value doesn't really exceed $100. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1436 Posts |
chetzler, to the CCF. It's a great place to learn & discuss all things numismatic-related. Sorry to say, I agree w/ SsuperDdave in the fact that it looks like it has been cleaned. NumisMedia pricing indicates an 1878-S TD in VF20 is worth about $180. Unfortunately, the cleaning & scratches brings its' value much lower. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts |
I agree that it has been cleaned. Details are around a low VF.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1511 Posts |
and unfortionitely I have to agree wih all the comments above. This old girl has had a rough bath at some point in her life. The clean fields with gunk in the small crevices as SsuperDdave pointed out is a dead giveaway for it being cleaned. Other than the cleaning I'd agree with everyone else in that I see nothing that would lead me to question authenticity, your ok there. Feel free not to answer if this is to forward, or even if you just don't want to because I know it's really none of my buisness.. But curiousioty has the best of me.. So again, if you don't mind me asking what did this girl cost you? And I'm not saying you should as its still a decent looking coin but could you return it if you wanted to? |
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Valued Member
 United States
206 Posts |
Thanks for all of the input, everyone. Here I thought that the gunk in the tight places was evidence that it had NOT been cleaned (if someone was going to clean a coin, surely they'd clean everywhere--that was my thinking!). I'm grateful to have learned a lesson here. To answer NathanASE's question: the dealer had it marked at $265 which I knew was too much. So I shot him a low-ball offer of $200, thinking he'd decline it outright and I could make a graceful exit from the store. After checking his list he agreed pretty quickly. At first I was excited, but as was driving home the first little doubts started to creep in. I have definitely lost all interest in the coin since the consensus here is that it has been cleaned--I shudder at the thought of having such a coin in my collection. I suppose the best thing is to give the dealer the benefit of the doubt. I'm planning to go back tomorrow or Friday and simply suggest that I think the coin has been cleaned, that several others agree with that assessment, and that I'd like my money back or at the very least $200 store credit. Any other thoughts for dealing with this? With all of the research I did it seems a little ridiculous, giving the difficulty of finding genuine Trade dollars, that I should locate a real one only to learn that it has been cleaned and is worth only a little more than a fake. Guess I should have spent some time researching how to spot cleaned coins as well! Edited by chetzler
05/02/2013 12:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3843 Posts |
The scratches/gouges on both the obverse and reverse are more distracting to me than the cleaning. Looks like XF details. I would suggest buying coins already slabbed by either PCGS or NGC until you can better spot common problems such as cleaning. Sure you might pay a little extra but the expert opinion its well worth it in my opinion for purchases over a couple hundred dollars. By the way to the forum. If you stick around you will learn a lot from the many dedicated & knowledgeable members here. I joined a little over a year ago and have leaned so much. I'm still an amateur comparatively speaking but moving in the right direction! Edited by Joe2007
05/02/2013 01:31 am
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Valued Member
United States
206 Posts |
I had another dealer in town look at this coin and he also seemed to think the obverse had experienced some light polishing. He said that a TPG would probably slab it but with conditional remarks and that it probably wouldn't be worth it for me to have this done. The good news is that dealer I purchased it from is willing to give me a full refund or store credit (thank goodness for a face-to-face transaction)! As much as I would like a Trade dollar for my nacent 19th century type set, I think I may let this one go--I'm just too much of a purist (as I indicated in another thread). Thanks again to everyone for all of the input. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Trade dollars are tricky but they are out there in non-cleaned condition with just as much detail as yours coin exhibits for around the same price. You may have to look around to find one but I got a PCGS graded 1877-S in AU-55 for about 100.00 more than you paid for this one. It does look to have a finger print that has toned over but I believe it is graded correctly. Here are the pictures of the Trade dollar I purchased for a little more than you paid for the one you had, so you should be able to find one in problem free XF for close to the same money you paid  
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3167 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
206 Posts |
Yes, definitely, that's a beautiful specimen, Bryan1315! I'll keep my eyes open.
Edited by chetzler
05/03/2013 11:07 pm
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Replies: 11 / Views: 2,399 |
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Posted 05/01/2013 7:11 pm
