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Really? - 20 Kangxi Cash Coins

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jcmworld's Avatar
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  09:48 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jcmworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
I've been working on the 20 Kangxi cash coins set from 1667 which when lined up make a poem. In my search I stumbled on this, and I'm just scratching my head wondering how the bidding could go so high on a coin which (if real) should sell for no more than $12 or so. Just to be sure I checked some pricelists and the price ranges from $3 in F up to $12 in EF. The casting flaw on the obv. would, in my opinion, knock this down from EF to VF, even with no corrosion and little wear.

Shensi is not the rare mint from this series, Taiwan is the one that commands a considerable premium.

Other than the price, the coin just looks questionable- the raised fields on the reverse and the "shen" on the reverse look off, particularly the left hand stroke. The dot on the Manchu looks misplaced (should be lower).

For the record: "shen" Shensi, Sch. 1440. Kangxi, minted 1667.

Here's the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/28110778705....m1438.l2649
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harrison2's Avatar
Mexico
1304 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  09:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add harrison2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that was a 'successful' listing in that it commanded a high-price. How does it compare with other completed auctions?
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jcmworld's Avatar
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  10:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcmworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Difficult to tell, so many of these issues go up as "unidentified," "unknown," or some variation on Kangxi (like Kang Xi) or Kang Hsi that compiling a list would be difficult. However I've been noticing listings for similar of the series hovering in the $5-15 range on e**y. How many sell is up to question, but those are more realistic prices. I would go by the private retail market, referencing reputable dealers' prices. With so many fakes of Chinese Cash going around I pretty much look at e**y to practice spotting new fakes and fantasies and keep to the private market for purchases.
This guy doesn't even bother to give a reference, although he must have done some research to support his listing since the paper holder is not marked with the mint name or his erroneous dating.
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rooneydog's Avatar
United Kingdom
739 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rooneydog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very strange.

If you click on the link in his description it takes you to a 1440 coin that sold for $4.99
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echizento's Avatar
United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the first time I've seen one of these go for that much.
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aiglet7's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Calgary Coin, (http://www.calgarycoin.com/referenc...na8.htm#kang hsi), a very reputable dealer, shows
S-1440, "SHEN" (Shensi mint) at F $2.00 and VF $3.00.
The T'ai (Taiwan) mint has a very different mint mark and would command a much higher price but nothing close to the selling price of the coin in question.
Cannot imagine someone paying US$510.- for what would appear to be a quite common issue.
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jcmworld's Avatar
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcmworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wonder why the link didn't work for you? Here's the item number so you can look it up: 281107787053

Taiwan had also been just reconquered from the majority of Ming Rebels when this issue was put out. The output from there was considerably smaller than the mainland mints. Kangxi was the first emperor of the Qing Dynasty to rule over the majority of China.

I like the Calgary Coins page, very nicely done.
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manymore's Avatar
United States
347 Posts
 Posted 05/21/2013  11:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add manymore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The kang xi tong bao (康熙e寶) coins cast at the Shaanxi (e西) mint are plentiful and inexpensive.

However, this particular coin is a very interesting variety and one that I had not seen before.

As already pointed out, the Manchu shaan is written in a slightly different way.

What is most interesting to me, however, is the calligraphy on the obverse side.

If you look carefully at the bao (寶) character to the left of the square hole, you will notice that the two little "feet" at the very bottom of the character are written in a style different from what you will see on any kang xi tong bao coin produced at any of the mints.

In particular, the right "foot" is in a style similar to that found on some Song Dynasty coins. It is also very similar to the right "foot" on the guang xu tong bao (.'e寶) coins struck at the Guangzhou mint.

Another character written in an unusual manner is the tong (e) to the right of the square hole.

You will notice that the top of the character resembles a large "triangle" which is in a different style compared to other kang xi tong bao coins.

My guess is that this coin was not cast during the reign of the Kangxi Emperor.

Collecting the 20 mints became very popular by the time of the Qianlong Emperor and, in order to meet the demand, a large number of kang xi tong bao coins were reproduced and in different styles.

Many people wanted a "matched" set. This is when the "larger" Taiwan coins made their appearance. The authentic coins from the time of the Kangxi Emperor are small and poorly made. People collecting the 20 mints wanted a coin similar in size and style to the coins from the other mints and so the larger Taiwan coins were reproduced.

This particular coin was probably cast during the late Qing or early Republican era.

I have known collectors who specialize in collecting varieties of Song Dynasty coins, xian feng ('豐) coins, etc. They have huge collections of varieties with very small yet distinctive differences.

Several people were bidding on this coin and they apparently felt that this variety was rare enough and desirable enough to pay over US$500. Considering how prices for old Chinese coins have increased over the last few years, paying $500 may have even been a bargain!

Don't worry, though. You will be able to find a common variety of a kang xi tong bao cast at the Shaanxi mint fairly easily and at a very reasonable price.

Gary

(Please note that the software on this website is apparently unable to display certain Chinese characters.)
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aiglet7's Avatar
Canada
695 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2013  12:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aiglet7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is always an education to read your comments, Gary. The subtle differences which you point out are probably not seen by the majority of us - certainly not by myself - and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience.
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jcmworld's Avatar
United States
567 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2013  2:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jcmworld to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do you type Chinese characters into the computer? Do you have an emulator or something? Been trying to figure this out for a bit.
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