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Valued Member
United States
179 Posts |
TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - Deep-sea explorers said Friday they have mined what could be the richest shipwreck treasure in history, bringing home 17 tons of colonial-era silver and gold coins from an undisclosed site in the Atlantic Ocean. Estimated value: $500 million.
A jet chartered by Tampa-based Odyssey Marine Exploration landed in the United States recently with hundreds of plastic containers brimming with coins raised from the ocean floor, Odyssey co-chairman Greg Stemm said. The more than 500,000 pieces are expected to fetch an average of $1,000 each from collectors and investors.
"For this colonial era, I think (the find) is unprecedented," said rare coin expert Nick Bruyer, who examined a batch of coins from the wreck. "I don't know of anything equal or comparable to it."
Citing security concerns, the company declined to release any details about the ship or the wreck site Friday. Stemm said a formal announcement will come later, but court records indicate the coins might come from a 400-year-old ship found off England.
Because the shipwreck was found in a lane where many colonial-era vessels went down, there is still some uncertainty about its nationality, size and age, Stemm said, although evidence points to a specific known shipwreck. The site is beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country, he said.
"Rather than a shout of glee, it's more being able to exhale for the first time in a long time," Stemm said of the haul, by far the biggest in Odyssey's 13-year history.
He wouldn't say if the loot was taken from the same wreck site near the English Channel that Odyssey recently petitioned a federal court for permission to salvage.
In seeking exclusive rights to that site, an Odyssey attorney told a federal judge last fall that the company likely had found the remains of a 17th-century merchant vessel that sank with valuable cargo aboard, about 40 miles off the southwestern tip of England. A judge signed an order granting those rights last month.
In keeping with the secretive nature of the project dubbed "Black Swan," Odyssey also isn't talking yet about the types, denominations and country of origin of the coins. Bruyer said he observed a wide range of varieties and dates of likely uncirculated currency in much better condition than artifacts yielded by most shipwrecks of a similar age.
The Black Swan coins - mostly silver pieces - likely will fetch several hundred dollars to several thousand dollars each, with some possibly commanding much more, he said. Value is determined by rarity, condition and the story behind them.
Controlled release of the coins into the market along with their expected high value to collectors likely will keep prices at a premium, he said.
The richest ever shipwreck haul was yielded by the Spanish galleon Nuestra Senora de Atocha, which sank in a hurricane off the Florida Keys in 1622. Treasure-hunting pioneer Mel Fisher found it in 1985, retrieving a reported $400 million in coins and other loot.
Odyssey likely will return to the same spot for more coins and artifacts.
"We have treated this site with kid gloves and the archaeological work done by our team out there is unsurpassed," Odyssey CEO John Morris said. "We are thoroughly documenting and recording the site, which we believe will have immense historical significance."
The news is timely for Odyssey, the only publicly traded company of its kind.
The company salvaged more than 50,000 coins and other artifacts from the wreck of the SS Republic off Savannah, Ga., in 2003, making millions. But Odyssey posted losses in 2005 and 2006 while using its expensive, state-of-the-art ships and deep-water robotic equipment to hunt for the next mother lode.
"The outside world now understands that what we do is a real business and is repeatable and not just a lucky one shot deal," Stemm said. "I don't know of anybody else who has hit more than one economically significant shipwreck."
In January, Odyssey won permission from the Spanish government to resume a suspended search for the wreck of the HMS Sussex, which was leading a British fleet into the Mediterranean Sea for a war against France in 1694 when it sank in a storm off Gibraltar.
Historians believe the 157-foot warship was carrying nine tons of gold coins to buy the loyalty of the Duke of Savoy, a potential ally in southeastern France. Odyssey believes those coins could also fetch more than $500 million.
But under the terms of a historic agreement Odyssey will have to share any finds with the British government. The company will get 80 percent of the first $45 million and about 50 percent of the proceeds thereafter.
Edited by mathman 05/18/2007 09:27 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2600 Posts |
I wonder how you would track these coins as they go to auction. The coins found by Mr. Mel Fisher, who I believe is the gentleman who co-founded the Dover Downs race way and brought Nascar to De., donated many of these coins along with the Perdue Family to Delaware Tech. The school, after storing many of the coins decided to sell off excess and duplicates. They sent a number of coins to one of the big auction houses, I think Christies, and sold them. It was not well advertised here and I found out after the fact. I would have been very interested in buying a couple. Any thoughts on how to follow this? Jim
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1173 Posts |
Wouldn't you love to go through those containers and sort out the coins!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1031 Posts |
I made a nice return on some of their stock (OMR) last year so I sold. The way their stock went up today I'd be able to buy my 1st fishing boat. I like to invest in what I'm interested in so this was one of those investments (gambles). The rule of thumb I live by is if they give you money take it before the stock market takes it back. I just wonder if it's still a good investment seeing how technology improves every year (especially deep water technology). There's so much of the ocean that hasn't been explored. There's so much out there to find and so much technology to find it. What if they find more of these shipwrecks... I think I have to see what the stock does in the next few days and do a little more research before I buy again. I won but kick myself for not holding and winning a whole bunch more. I guess that's why the stock market is just like gambling. I'm sure that after this news that on Monday the stock will continue to go up so now isn't a good time to put in a buy order for the open on Monday morning. I think it will go up then settle down a little then it might be a good time to jump back in and wait for the next big find.
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Valued Member
United States
90 Posts |
You have to love shipwrecks.
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Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
I also find these exciting, however, I wonder what these finds will do to the colonial coin market. For example, lets say there were only 3 known coins in existence of a certain date. Now, lets suppose that they found several hundred of them in this find. I wonder what that would do to the value ot the 3 known ones..... Much like the GSA release made certain CC mrgans go down in value. Just food for thought. MM 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1283 Posts |
This news it big enough that I actually saw the story on cable news. Talk about the ultimate fantasy! Being a treasure hunter at sea discovering a half billion dollars in colonial coins. It will be interesting to see which coins were in there and how it will affect the value of certain ones.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts |
morganman, I think if there are several "new" examples of once-thought nearly unique coins found that the dip won't be severe or profound. What seems to happen is that enough interest is generated that more collectors are exposed to the material and while the availability will increase, prices are not likely to fall precipitously.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1083 Posts |
If they control the release probably the general market will not be affected, but for those rich individuals holding auction coins where only four or five exist and they paid six figures or more - I would be afraid, very afraid.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
quote: I also find these exciting, however, I wonder what these finds will do to the colonial coin market.
Probably nothing since these are not US colonial coins. The estimates I have seen seem to place the ship in the late 1600's. The only US colonial that could be there would be Massachusetts silver. The only pictures they have released seem to show crown sized coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5362 Posts |
Perhaps it is just may nature to be suspicious of these things. But I hope they do a far better job documenting actual specimens and have them slabbed like they did with the SS America. A raw release of a bunch of "new" types of Spanish Cobs will only muddy the waters and make it easy for the Chinese to produce exact copies almost before the rest hit the street. Wreck coins all look cast anyway.
I know that Mel Fisher has been mentioned, but the copies he had made using "real" silver from the wreck have always have bothered me - because they are called shipwreck coins and they are sold as if they were actual coins recovered from the wreck and not just replicas.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
Hi... I know as much as you guys know from the news, but for the pictures I can tell they have several silver crowns and 'they may have portraits or pillars', they mentioned Mexican gold so on that part of the world and at that time "most likely" for having Mexican gold cobs you are talking around 1710-1760. The exact date of the wreck was not released, they also mentioned "colonial" but they did not give information about the coins etc... Of course in a any wreck more being from a "commercial cargo" you will find many type of coins, but probably nothing from this part of the planet. However I must say that at this point anything that we can read or talk about it will remain as simple speculations. Now from reading some more I can tell that nothing will happen anytime soon... http://www.eux.tv/article.aspx?articleId=8654Let's see what happens... swamperbob: Hi..I agree, they should mark even the cobs as "copy" and the sad part is that just a little part of the original silver is used to make those "pieces" not even the original pure silver in full. I am against UNMARKED repros. Anyway... like in any fields some are just in the "business" for $$$ which makes the difference with the professional, that is why I do not deal in repros at all. I recommend to anyone to check my brief article on detecting fake silver cobs. I even posted some pictures http://www.realtreasures.com/fake.htmI will post that article later so everybody can take look at it.
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Valued Member
United States
112 Posts |
Do you think these will just be put up for auction all at once anytime soon or will this take years to finish?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1031 Posts |
I know they have some coins from previous finds for sale on their website: http://www.shipwreck.net/However, if they did find this many coins, only time will tell us.
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Valued Member
United States
103 Posts |
quote: Do you think these will just be put up for auction all at once anytime soon or will this take years to finish?
Not sure... it all depends on what type of coins they found... if it is a common coin they won't do auction since the bidders will reflect the reality of the market. However they may pick the rarest and better to do an exclusive auction setting a high value for their coins then selling the rest... but it is to early to know what is or will going on this.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
891 Posts |
This is a great find. Makes you wonder how much is out there to be found. quote: But under the terms of a historic agreement Odyssey will have to share any finds with the British government. The company will get 80 percent of the first $45 million and about 50 percent of the proceeds thereafter.
I wonder what the British government will do with their share. Will they sell them as coins or will they melt them down for the gold and silver? It would be a shame for them to melt them.
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Replies: 16 / Views: 3,088 |